Do humans have a free will?
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Cornel, you make absolutely no sense!
Answer the question with your words, all this cryptic pasting in various fonts and colors is distracting, almost as if you are shouting or preaching (the same thing in some churches)
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Could Cornel be looked on as a good example of what I suggest
might be the case? -
”…and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
A good defense lawyer will do the same.
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CraigD,
re. your "Humans DO have free will!!"There are a few conditions…
See an example!:
”…and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free[.” (John 8:32)Cornel
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Dear Mike,
I'm partly with you on this one, but I believe that our early experiences have a lot to do with how we are. Yes, genetics plays its part, the most obvious being that of appearance: if you are physically attractive then your chances of a successful life are enhanced because society as a whole will favour you. What happens to you in the womb and at birth can also affect your capacity to learn and retain information. Someone who is quick on the uptake is more likely to make it in the world. However, these advantages can be negated by overbearing parents who rob their children of self confidence, and by bad teachers who fail to inspire their pupils. I believe in free will, and I do not think we are hard-wired at birth. The cross-linking happens gradually as we grow up, and that is, to large measure, down to luck. Do you feel lucky?
Regards,
BobPS Please note that I left out the word 'punk' in the last sentence, but it was very tempting.
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Quoting from the Bible is all very fine but is the Bible the
'word' of God (The Christian one)or is it a copy of a copy of
a copy etc. There is quite strong evidence that this is the
case with recent finds in the Middle East! The Roman Catholic
Church would appear to have omitted quite a lot of the original
text as it did not suit their ends. This however is not what
we are talking about here. -
@daniel said:
For the most part, yes we have freedom of choice, limited by our means and environment. However, when looking at history, I cannot help thinking there have been some individuals whose destiny was predetermined. Also, if one believes in the Bible, then there are times when someone's actions are affected by Divine intervention.
That's what I call covering all the bases.
~Voder
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I understand your take on it Bob and what you say is often the
case. But at the same time people just go down 'certain' roads
regardless of their upbringing.I remember reading about a case study that involved identical
twins, one going to a privileged home and the other going to
a not so privileged home. I can't remember the exact details
but do remember that both twins ended up with similar outlooks.I'd say if a character trait is in your genes its going to come
out and manifest itself eventually. We have no more power over
it than we have to 'wish' ourselves to be a certain height, again
predetermined by our genes!In a certain way this kind of thinking could tie in nicely with
God's / The Creator's Plan? I suppose at the end of the day it
could be argued that all we can do is modify our traits / behavior
to be acceptable in our surroundings? After all self preservation
is top of the list.Maybe all we have to hand is a 'slide switch' for behavior levels
/ scale BUT the particular gene is embedded! -
Cornel,
Could you clarify something for me that's been bugging me for a long
time. Okay, I have no argument and accept that you BELIEVE,1. My Bible is The Word of God, I'm sure about that, because: “For
the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword,
piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow,
and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)My question is simple! The Bible quote you offer is from (Hebrews 4:12),now
my Biblical knowledge is not great but was Hebrews not written before
the birth of Jesus Christ? From what I can gather the early Bible (first
Testament) is the basis for Judaism and they do not accept the Jesus Christ
was / is God! How can you quote Hebrews to support this? I would genuinely
like to hear your thinking on this in plain English.Regarding your statement that we are not animals and bare in mind that
there is little difference between us and chimps, gene wise, what exactly
are we in your opinion? -
Humans are genetically, environmentally and socially conditioned animals. There are experienments in the 80s that showed that our unconscious 'acted' before we are consciously aware (by 0.5s through brain imaging) of our effort in decision making. Even David Hume said that our rationality are slave to our passions. The question shouldn't be do we have 'free will' as though so called 'free will' actually exists outside of our complex and dynamic interaction with our current and historical conditions, but rather to what extent can we exercise self-determination given our complex and dynamic interactions with our preconditions.
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@unknownuser said:
Re. “animals”, at first, they have no spirit…!
Really and we do?
got proof of that one?, now proof not jibberish from your book now.
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Mike,
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Re. your question:
“…was Hebrews not written before the birth of Jesus Christ?"
No. “Hebrews” means an letter of apostle Paul to Hebrews people. -
Re. your remark: “…Judaism … do not accept the Jesus Christ”
If they accept or not, “…the word of the Lord remains forever.” (1 Peter 1:25) -
Re. “animals", at first, they have no spirit…!
Cornel
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I love it when people quote religious texts to 'prove' religion is true.
Bravo! Its worse than having a brain tumor. -
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Okay Cornel,
As I said my Biblical knowledge is lacking. But I think you
know what I'm trying to ask. I'll try again.Christianity is based on what we have in the bible or is it
just the second part of the Bible?If its only the second part of the Bible, why is this so?
Surely it refers to the same God? In other words both Christians
and Jews recognise the same God? Jesus Christ never (from what
I have learned) disputed his born into religion he never said
Judaism is not the 'true' religion so why was Christianity
started by his followers?Okay, I feel I have to believe in a Creator, much more intelligent
minds than mine have come to this being the only conclusion.I would like to think that if the Creator has in fact made his
/ her / its message known, it would be in a way that the community
of people in question would understand. So I would suggest that
ALL religions come from the Creator and they ALL are true and
no particular religion should be said to be the one and only
true religion.Personally, I think the more so called 'primitive' beliefs are
far more in touch with the Creator than the major religions. The
reason being that they more in touch with nature.As regards animals not having souls / spirits. I can see no
reason why they would not have one if they actually exist in
the first place. Have you a reason for saying this? -
Solo,
Yes, it's really, INDEED and positively (even negatived... practicable)!
Not gibberish,
Cornel -
Oy Vey!,
Signed Yeshua of Nazareth.
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There is no definitive New Testament in terms of being the "Truth" as opposed to erroneous. The N.T. canon is simply those books that Athanasius of Alexandria decided ought to be included (from a much larger selection) in AD 367. This decision was given further weight by virtue of the same limited number of books being repeated by the Pope about 20 years later.
It's simply an anthology; whether you add a few more texts that were edited-out or miss out a few of the ones that are included has no bearing on its veracity.
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@sorgesu said:
Oy Vey!,
Signed Yeshua of Nazareth.
Susan, I only have an idea at what this means 
Cornel, I simply cannot understand what you write. Could you
put your answers in plain English that will be able to understand.Alan, looks like you went to Sunday School. I 'ducked out' of
a lot of it BUT I was an Alter Boy, would you belive?Mike
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Cornel,
I don't think I am going to get anywhere with this debate as I
am unable to understand the terms and way you have of speaking.
This is a pity, but not to worry, I presume we will find out
truth sometime in the future? I'm quite looking forward to itDo you partake in a drink? If so you might can to have a look
at the 'My Corner Bar' topic? I imagine it will, in time, feature
many of the drinking troughs that members frequent.
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