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    Do humans have a free will?

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    • W Offline
      watkins
      last edited by

      Dear Mike,

      I'm partly with you on this one, but I believe that our early experiences have a lot to do with how we are. Yes, genetics plays its part, the most obvious being that of appearance: if you are physically attractive then your chances of a successful life are enhanced because society as a whole will favour you. What happens to you in the womb and at birth can also affect your capacity to learn and retain information. Someone who is quick on the uptake is more likely to make it in the world. However, these advantages can be negated by overbearing parents who rob their children of self confidence, and by bad teachers who fail to inspire their pupils. I believe in free will, and I do not think we are hard-wired at birth. The cross-linking happens gradually as we grow up, and that is, to large measure, down to luck. Do you feel lucky?

      Regards,
      Bob

      PS Please note that I left out the word 'punk' in the last sentence, but it was very tempting.

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      • Mike LuceyM Offline
        Mike Lucey
        last edited by

        Quoting from the Bible is all very fine but is the Bible the
        'word' of God (The Christian one)or is it a copy of a copy of
        a copy etc. There is quite strong evidence that this is the
        case with recent finds in the Middle East! The Roman Catholic
        Church would appear to have omitted quite a lot of the original
        text as it did not suit their ends. This however is not what
        we are talking about here.

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        • V Offline
          Voder Vocoder
          last edited by

          @daniel said:

          For the most part, yes we have freedom of choice, limited by our means and environment. However, when looking at history, I cannot help thinking there have been some individuals whose destiny was predetermined. Also, if one believes in the Bible, then there are times when someone's actions are affected by Divine intervention.

          That's what I call covering all the bases.

          ~Voder

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          • Mike LuceyM Offline
            Mike Lucey
            last edited by

            I understand your take on it Bob and what you say is often the
            case. But at the same time people just go down 'certain' roads
            regardless of their upbringing.

            I remember reading about a case study that involved identical
            twins, one going to a privileged home and the other going to
            a not so privileged home. I can't remember the exact details
            but do remember that both twins ended up with similar outlooks.

            I'd say if a character trait is in your genes its going to come
            out and manifest itself eventually. We have no more power over
            it than we have to 'wish' ourselves to be a certain height, again
            predetermined by our genes!

            In a certain way this kind of thinking could tie in nicely with
            God's / The Creator's Plan? I suppose at the end of the day it
            could be argued that all we can do is modify our traits / behavior
            to be acceptable in our surroundings? After all self preservation
            is top of the list.

            Maybe all we have to hand is a 'slide switch' for behavior levels
            / scale BUT the particular gene is embedded!

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            • Mike LuceyM Offline
              Mike Lucey
              last edited by

              Cornel,

              Could you clarify something for me that's been bugging me for a long
              time. Okay, I have no argument and accept that you BELIEVE,

              1. My Bible is The Word of God, I'm sure about that, because: “For
              the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword,
              piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow,
              and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)

              My question is simple! The Bible quote you offer is from (Hebrews 4:12),now
              my Biblical knowledge is not great but was Hebrews not written before
              the birth of Jesus Christ? From what I can gather the early Bible (first
              Testament) is the basis for Judaism and they do not accept the Jesus Christ
              was / is God! How can you quote Hebrews to support this? I would genuinely
              like to hear your thinking on this in plain English.

              Regarding your statement that we are not animals and bare in mind that
              there is little difference between us and chimps, gene wise, what exactly
              are we in your opinion?

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              • C Offline
                chango70
                last edited by

                Humans are genetically, environmentally and socially conditioned animals. There are experienments in the 80s that showed that our unconscious 'acted' before we are consciously aware (by 0.5s through brain imaging) of our effort in decision making. Even David Hume said that our rationality are slave to our passions. The question shouldn't be do we have 'free will' as though so called 'free will' actually exists outside of our complex and dynamic interaction with our current and historical conditions, but rather to what extent can we exercise self-determination given our complex and dynamic interactions with our preconditions.

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                • soloS Offline
                  solo
                  last edited by

                  @unknownuser said:

                  Re. “animals”, at first, they have no spirit…!

                  Really and we do?

                  got proof of that one?, now proof not jibberish from your book now.

                  http://www.solos-art.com

                  If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                  • C Offline
                    cornel
                    last edited by

                    Mike,

                    1. Re. your question:
                      “…was Hebrews not written before the birth of Jesus Christ?"
                      No. “Hebrews” means an letter of apostle Paul to Hebrews people.

                    2. Re. your remark: “…Judaism … do not accept the Jesus Christ”
                      If they accept or not, “…the word of the Lord remains forever.” (1 Peter 1:25)

                    3. Re. “animals", at first, they have no spirit…!

                    Cornel

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                    • C Offline
                      chango70
                      last edited by

                      I love it when people quote religious texts to 'prove' religion is true. 😆 Bravo! Its worse than having a brain tumor.

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                      • david_hD Offline
                        david_h
                        last edited by

                        .

                        If I make it look easy...It is probably easy

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                        • Mike LuceyM Offline
                          Mike Lucey
                          last edited by

                          Okay Cornel,

                          As I said my Biblical knowledge is lacking. But I think you
                          know what I'm trying to ask. I'll try again.

                          Christianity is based on what we have in the bible or is it
                          just the second part of the Bible?

                          If its only the second part of the Bible, why is this so?
                          Surely it refers to the same God? In other words both Christians
                          and Jews recognise the same God? Jesus Christ never (from what
                          I have learned) disputed his born into religion he never said
                          Judaism is not the 'true' religion so why was Christianity
                          started by his followers?

                          Okay, I feel I have to believe in a Creator, much more intelligent
                          minds than mine have come to this being the only conclusion.

                          I would like to think that if the Creator has in fact made his
                          / her / its message known, it would be in a way that the community
                          of people in question would understand. So I would suggest that
                          ALL religions come from the Creator and they ALL are true and
                          no particular religion should be said to be the one and only
                          true religion.

                          Personally, I think the more so called 'primitive' beliefs are
                          far more in touch with the Creator than the major religions. The
                          reason being that they more in touch with nature.

                          As regards animals not having souls / spirits. I can see no
                          reason why they would not have one if they actually exist in
                          the first place. Have you a reason for saying this?

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                          • C Offline
                            cornel
                            last edited by

                            Solo,

                            Yes, it's really, INDEED and positively (even negatived... practicable)!

                            Not gibberish,
                            Cornel

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                            • S Offline
                              sorgesu
                              last edited by

                              Oy Vey!,

                              Signed Yeshua of Nazareth.

                              Susan Sorger
                              Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
                              Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

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                              • Alan FraserA Offline
                                Alan Fraser
                                last edited by

                                There is no definitive New Testament in terms of being the "Truth" as opposed to erroneous. The N.T. canon is simply those books that Athanasius of Alexandria decided ought to be included (from a much larger selection) in AD 367. This decision was given further weight by virtue of the same limited number of books being repeated by the Pope about 20 years later.

                                It's simply an anthology; whether you add a few more texts that were edited-out or miss out a few of the ones that are included has no bearing on its veracity.

                                3D Figures
                                Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
                                You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

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                                • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                  Mike Lucey
                                  last edited by

                                  @sorgesu said:

                                  Oy Vey!,

                                  Signed Yeshua of Nazareth.

                                  😆 Susan, I only have an idea at what this means 👍

                                  Cornel, I simply cannot understand what you write. Could you
                                  put your answers in plain English that will be able to understand.

                                  Alan, looks like you went to Sunday School. I 'ducked out' of
                                  a lot of it BUT I was an Alter Boy, would you belive?

                                  Mike

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                                  • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                    Mike Lucey
                                    last edited by

                                    Cornel,

                                    I don't think I am going to get anywhere with this debate as I
                                    am unable to understand the terms and way you have of speaking.
                                    This is a pity, but not to worry, I presume we will find out
                                    truth sometime in the future? I'm quite looking forward to it 👍

                                    Do you partake in a drink? If so you might can to have a look
                                    at the 'My Corner Bar' topic? I imagine it will, in time, feature
                                    many of the drinking troughs that members frequent.

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                                    • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                      Mike Lucey
                                      last edited by

                                      Susan, I could not resist looking up what it meant, 'Oh My God!'

                                      I also ran a search on Yeshua of Nazareth and low and behold,
                                      wouldn't you know it, he is on Facebook!,
                                      http://www.facebook.com/people/Yeshua_De_Nazareth/781483426
                                      and there is even a Susan listed as one of his friends that
                                      looks a little like you!


                                      JC is on Facebook!.jpg

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                                      • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                        Mike Lucey
                                        last edited by

                                        ..... and he lives near you. Come on! Spill the beans Susan?

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                                        • david_hD Offline
                                          david_h
                                          last edited by

                                          Why is Philemon part of the Bible? It is just a personal letter From Paul to Philemon about a runaway slave. It has no Moral message or teaching whatsoever. The Song of Solomon is a love poem. . .amd believe me Solomon had a lot to sing about! 💚

                                          Point is, the Bible is the Word of God, Just not the Whole Word. Read the Book Of Mormon.

                                          If I make it look easy...It is probably easy

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                                          • S Offline
                                            sorgesu
                                            last edited by

                                            Mike you are so funny. He lives at the opposite end of the country near me, but sure, whatever you say.
                                            Just to hit you over the head with it "Jesus" was not Jesus's name. That is Romanized. He was Jewish and his name was Jeshua but I wrote it the way it is pronounced. I signed as though I were he, a good Jew to the end.

                                            Susan Sorger
                                            Former Seller Hand Rendered Entourage
                                            Former Canadian Authorized Training Centre, SketchUp

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