Religion anyone?
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Modelhead,
It's well known that it was THE CONCLUSION of many specialised competent engineers...
Cornel
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Of course God exists outside of time. He has to...there wasn't any such thing as time prior to the creation of the universe, it's a function of mass, space and the speed of light.
But we're not talking about God; we're talking about the creation of a very physical and tangible earth. That earth had to be formed according to a timescale...and the one in the Bible makes no sense at all.
As for Noah. Here's the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, written centuries before the rise of the Hebrews. http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab11.htm
It's all in there, albeit with a few changes of name and detail...the flood, the boat, the chosen few and their livestock, the grounding on the mountain...even the dove sent out on a recon mission.
The plain fact is that flood myths abound all over the Middle East...and beyond. We are talking Early Bronze Age here. Precisely the time when the sea levels were rising after the last Ice Age and some areas of very fertile land then below sea level, now under the sea were inundated catastrophically when the higher ground separating them from the sea finally gave way (like the Bosphorus). The result was the flooding of basins that are now the Black and Red Seas.
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Solo,
Those were your words:
āYou believe in the whole Noah story right? a 900 year old man collects two of every animal and stores it on his boat and weathers out a flood right?"ā¦mentioning GREAT FLOOD TIME.
Noah was 600 y. old in that time.
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Acceptable, you are correct on that, I concur on age at time of storm. Thats one pretty old dude nonetheless huh?
Anyway, back to your opinion on video clip....
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Alan,
I know those hypothesis and manyā¦, and manyā¦
Iām not at a āstarting pointā! I did study ālibrariesāā¦, about suppositions, theories, etc.Yor are right, the Earth was formed āaccording to a timescaleā, but correct periods are those exposed in the Bible (Genesis).
Iām not so religious to believe every ideea, even it is written in āuppercaseā or trumpeted in the name of Science.Cornel
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Solo,
That video-clip didnāt start. It looks like a square white spot, but without a linkā¦!
Can you give me the path of it?
Sorry for this inconvenient!
Cornel -
@unknownuser said:
Iām not so religious to believe every ideea, even it is written in āuppercaseā or trumpeted in the name of Science
This is some seriously warped rhetorics. You're not religous enough to believe every idea that's 'trumpeted' in the name of science. What does that mean?
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Sure thing.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQLD59fK_Iw
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Stinkie,
To believefor example in those millions y. or billions y., you have to have a HUGE FAITH.
Can you verify them? Which Laboratory will take that responsibility?!
Besides that, almost all theories were continuously changeableā¦!Do you know a verse like Luke 19:40?:
āAnd he (Jesus) answered and said, I tell you that, if these shall hold their peace, the stones will cry out.ā
āStonesā (the Archeology, for example) are more eloquent than āwordsā!Cornel
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Its not a belief that the universe started billions of years ago. It is an idea. Science has nothing to do with faith.
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@unknownuser said:
Stinkie,
To believefor example in those millions y. or billions y., you have to have a HUGE FAITH.
Can you verify them? Which Laboratory will take that responsibility?!
Besides that, almost all theories were continuously changeableā¦!Let's get a couple of things straight. There's no 'believing' involved here, at least not on my part. I don't 'believe' in the theories that scientists propose - I merely deem them less implausible than the idea of a supreme being.
Why? Well, precisely because "almost all theories were continuously changeable". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability
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I see Solo that 'I believe..' thread made you nervous. So did your find to me.
Probably you have read why I believe and what I believe in. The author of the clip stretched the facts far too much. I have spent enough time on the internet to find out that several things are simply not true. Especially those regarding the date of 25th of December. Obviously I do not deny there are similarities in several cases.You 'have spent a lot of time examining Christianity' as I understood.
You see, it is not a matter of trying to verify if the 'Good News' is true, checking historical sources.
It is a matter of opening your heart to the message.
If I would tell you that you can meet the One I believe in .. just by asking him to come.. would you be brave enough to do it and be serious in it. Not just for a fun.
I know you are ultra sceptic in this matter.
Do you believe in love? Is it only a bio-chemical process inside us? If you follow this path you will understand more.
The essence is to experience love. To let it work. You will find a lot of bad 'Christians' too, but it doesn't mean what we live is illusion. -
Remus wrote:
āIts not a belief that the universe started billions of years ago. It is an idea. Science has nothing to do with faith.āThis implicates that āEvolution Theoryā is an imaginated storyā¦ Only "it is an idea" !
Cornel
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Oi! Be
@unknownuser said:Remus wrote:
āIts not a belief that the universe started billions of years ago. It is an idea. Science has nothing to do with faith.āThis implicates that āEvolution Theoryā is an imaginated storyā¦ "It is an idea."
Cornel
Sigh. I am no scientist, but even I understand the core concepts of scientific thinking. Either you don't, or you're deliberately persisting in some sort of ludicrous obscurantism.
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Cornel, the age of the earth has been verified in just about EVERY laboratory on earth. Maintaining that it is still a matter of debate is just ridiculous, You might as well try to argue that the earth is flat or there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.
It's not even as if it is just one science that points towards a date of about 4.5 billion years...they all do...geology, geomorphology, chemistry, physics, astrophysics....the list goes on.
It's also worth considering that no other religion has a problem with that...not even mainstream Christianity...just the lunatic fringes of it.
You can't pick and choose which bits of science fit in wih your own religious beliefs. This is exactly the same science that keeps aircraft aloft makes nuclear power stations work or carries traffic across rivers on webs of steel. None of these are imaginary or just "ideas",
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Cornel,
Science is all about testing theories to see if theyre right. Theories dont just pop out of thin air, everything starts of as an idea, although it is initially imagined that doesnt mean it will turn out to be wrong.
p.s. i get the distinct feeling we've done all this before.
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This one is for Stinkie and the other Dutch speaking forum members (I wish it was in English...
Hans Teeuwen has a somewhat distorted but funny approach on Da Bible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3g8_BFAPs
[flash=425,344:3155fh6t]http://www.youtube.com/v/uY3g8_BFAPs&hl=en&fs=1[/flash:3155fh6t] -
a) Could anyone with a better understanding of the philosophy of science (I hope this is the correct translation of the Dutch "kennistheorie") explain to our friend Cornel what the difference between "an idea" and "a story" is? I'd want to myself, but I'm afraid I'd leave him too much room to wedge in some scripture quote. Yeah, I did skip class a lot.
b) Thanks, Kwist!
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Tomasz
What you are talking about is faith, not logical faith like driving over a bridge and believing it will keep standing until you get past it based on your knowledge that the engineers are trained, the builders are inspected and that your chances of making it are pretty good. You require blind faith based on a book that has similar stories that many earlier religions had, yet it dismisses them as false and it the only truth.
Do I believe in love? Yes I do it is an emotion, it also has a chemical explanation re: dopamine. Then there are many forms of love, the Greeks have great examples of such like Agape love, Eros love, etc. Lets not get love and blind devotion mixed now.
Kids are expected to believe in Santa Clause the jolly red giver, they love him, trust him, believe in the whole naughty and nice crap, yet he does not exist ā¦. Sound familiar? Get rid of dude in red suit, put in (deity of choice) add a few stories and warnings of damnation and we have ā¦ā¦ you guessed it.
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Ok,
Iām āpersisting in some sort of ludicrous obscurantismāā¦
Remus wrote: āScience is all about testing theories to see if theyāre right.ā
Can you, guys, verify for example Alanās ā4.5 billion yearsā?!!
Cornel
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