McCain vs Obama 1st debate
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fyi, it was interaction with Mohammedan society that brought the crusading europeans from an intellectual, physical and cultural dark ages into the Renaissance. Western society was definitively shaped by those interactions. People do and say both horrible and wonderful things in the name of religion. Try and find some of the good.
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
No, but I have absolutely no regard for Islam. And I have no regard for a guy who has befriended William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.
Ron, you just said in another thread that you are an undicided voter, but judging from your comments you know exactly who you are NOT voting for, that kinda makes one pretty decided voter in a two party race.
Man, this login issue is a real pain. Anyway, I think in the other thread I said I will likely vote third party, although I didn't say who. These are important times. I think third parties have more relevance today than ever before. Witness the bipartisan bailout Congress worked on over the weekend. Mark my words, the essence of this bailout will be from the top down instead of from the bottom up. There will be lots of talk about confining CEO pay and that's supposed to make us peons feel good. There isn't a decimal SMALL enough to register the ratio between CEO pay and the size of the entire mess.
Anyway, sorry my rant got a little off topic.
Edit: you must have added to your post after my reply. I was not voting for Nader it was the guy I was responding to...I forget his name.
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Not off topic at all, it's all the same subject really.
I edited my above post to include Nader just before you posted.
As I see it you have more conservative values than liberal and in a race that really is about two candidates and two parties, your vote if only two candidates did exist would be a McCain vote, however with Nader in the picture your vote for him would be a lost conservative vote as the more conservative or even libertarian voters out there that do vote for Nader will in reallity weaken the support for a conservative based result. On the same coin a liberal based thinker would take away from Obama for the same reason.
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Ahhh, you see McCain make this an easy decision for me. He is not a real conservative and Bush turned out to be a big spender (and a major disappointment for me, acutally). So for me to vote for Bob Barr, the Libertarian, is an easy choice. If by doing so I help elect Obama, so be it. I think not voting your conscience is throwing your vote away.
Edit: Ross Perot's presence in the 1992 election is why Clinton got elected. Imagine how history would have change had Perot not been around!
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Well in that case, lucky Bob Barr.
(Can I send you an Obama t-shirt
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LOL. Thanks for the offer on the t-shirt. I'll pass, although I reserve the right to change my mind.
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The USA has had it's day and I challenge anyone to name a single country that looks to it for leadership.
They are on the brink of financial collapse and almost 60% of it's pre-bailout debt is controlled by China and other so-called emerging nations who also dominate manufacturing. Cities like New York are being sold off to foreign investors, many ironically from the middle east. They are obsessed with the threat of terrorist attack while being bled dry by a self imposed religious/oil war they cannot win and Afganistan/Pakistan is escalating. The war-machine that has propped up the economy for decades is rife with corruption and a dying industry. The auto industry American Big 3 are on the verge of collapse as are other industries such as steel. The housing sector has been decimated. They have alienated their free trade allies and oil/resource rich countries such as Venezuela and Bolivia are escalating anti-American sentiment while aligning themselves with Russia, who are rebuilding at an alarming rate and have recently upped their military presence in the Carribean to beyond Cold War status.
We are now a few short weeks from the presidential election and some people still can't get past the fact that Obama has a middle name that is associated with the Middle East or that God will be displeased if they vote for him.
Thankfully if John McCain is elected and kicks the bucket, Sarah Palin will be there to save the day because she can see Russia from her bedroom window. -
Paris, tell us more about yourself. Your bio is a little light. I have to say I agree with much of what you said except that the US has had it's day. We are the "light on the hill". Our most prized export is freedom. People risk their lives to come here. We do more good than harm.
You don't see any relevance to "Barak Hussein Obama" being a presidential candidate in these times?
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@unknownuser said:
You don't see any relevance to "Barak Hussein Obama" being a presidential candidate in these times?
But another angry and millitant white man that wants to rule by force and impose his beliefs on the world is exactly what we need?
These times call for composure, consideration, intellegence, and decisive actions, not knee jerk reactions, un-needed wars and a cold war mentality.
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I'll admit..I do hear allot of people go out of their way to mention his middle name..and usually they are in the midst of bashing him when they do it. There are just as many ignorant people that will think he is a Muslim extremist because of his name, that will also not vote for him ( or vote for him) just cause he's half African American.
Gaganraj, unfortunately based on recent events.... in allot of peoples minds Arab does equal bad. When I was watching the world trade center be attacked I wasn't thinking it was the Swedes that were flying the planes into the buildings. I'm not saying it's right or fair..but in allot of peoples minds that middle name of his is pretty hard to swallow.
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
You don't see any relevance to "Barak Hussein Obama" being a presidential candidate in these times?
But another angry and millitant white man that wants to rule by force and impose his beliefs on the world is exactly what we need?
These times call for composure, consideration, intellegence, and decisive actions, not knee jerk reactions, un-needed wars and a cold war mentality.
These times also call for experience, foresight and candor. I don't trust Obama. I don't he knows what the hell he's doing.
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@fella77 said:
I'll admit..I do hear allot of people go out of their way to mention his middle name..and usually they are in the midst of bashing him when they do it. There are just as many ignorant people that will think he is a Muslim extremist because of his name, that will also not vote for him ( or vote for him) just cause he's half African American.
Gaganraj, unfortunately based on recent events.... in allot of peoples minds Arab does equal bad. When I was watching the world trade center be attacked I wasn't thinking it was the Swedes that were flying the planes into the buildings. I'm not saying it's right or fair..but in allot of peoples minds that middle name of his is pretty hard to swallow.
I agree. Although I don't think he's a Muslim extremist, I do question his loyalties.
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@bellwells said:
Paris, tell us more about yourself. Your bio is a little light. I have to say I agree with much of what you said except that the US has had it's day. We are the "light on the hill". Our most prized export is freedom. People risk their lives to come here. We do more good than harm.
You don't see any relevance to "Barak Hussein Obama" being a presidential candidate in these times?
You tout that America is the 'light on the hill' and a country that is built on freedom and equality for all and at the same time you condemn an 'American' black man who has elevated himself to where he is running for the highest position in the land because he was 'given' a name that evokes fear. A fear I might add that is self imposed. You can't have it both ways. It's time for America to wake up and realize that if they want to regain their status as a 'respected' world leader then they need to overcome their own arrogance and hypocrisy. Right now all I see is a country in peril, that is dominated by right wing extremist paranoia. Bush has opened the Pandora's box and unlike when you guys were humiliated by Vietnam these guys strap bombs to themselves and fly planes into buildings. As far as 'exporting freedom' goes, well, there is a big difference between 'liberation' and 'domination'.
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I agree with much of what Paris is saying. How can we be a 'light on a hill' when people are fearful of a candidates name? How are we in any way an enlightened society? McCain graduated 5th to last in his class and was, in his own words, reckless and egotistical. He is typical of an elitist, white establishment that has mislead the country into believe we are a 'christian' nation blessed by 'God' and taken them into a war for a valuable and vanishing resource. How can anyone be mistrustful of a man that has worked his way from nothing to being the leading presidential nominee JUST BECAUSE OF HIS NAME?! It is an ignorant, xenophobic, racist and uneducated opinion. In the same vein that people are mistrustful of a dark skinned man, I am fearful of old, warmongering white men, who have done little more than line the pockets of their cronies, while the world sinks into a future devoid of oil, water, fertile soil and most of all, rational thinking human beings.
Most older white men in this country will never understand what it is to feel any sort of oppression or discrimination. It is a dying generation that will have to come to terms with, before they are gone, that their country is lead by a man of color. deal with it.
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For the doom and gloomers regarding the collapse of the USA, this shows GDP, in $, of the G8 from 1970-2007. As of 2007, the USA, with over $12.4 trillion, is 3 times the next largest, Japan. That's despite 9/11, the war on terror, Katrina, Democrat congress, etc. Didn't bother with labeling the rest 'cause they're down in the noise somewhere...
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@gaganraj said:
It is an ignorant, xenophobic, racist and uneducated opinion. In the same vein that people are mistrustful of a dark skinned man, I am fearful of old, warmongering white men, who have done little more than line the pockets of their cronies, while the world sinks into a future devoid of oil, water, fertile soil and most of all, rational thinking human beings.
gag,
I suspect that the reason Arabs do not enjoy greater popularity in the States than they do is that they're just not as likable as you are.
~Voder
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whats not to like?
Is it because I said something negative about old white men? woops. -
Im actually looking forward to friday..the VPs debate!
In fact I dont think Palin will get creamed....she's a tough, savy chick...as she shows here http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/20080928_fey_takes_on_palin_take_two/
But the big question is gonna be...'will she be wired?'...will Carl Rove be in the next room feeding her answers?...My guess is that she will be wearing her hair down....easier to hide the receivers of course!.....so Biden's best line could be..."Is that a radio in your ear..or are you just happy to hear me?" -
@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
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Even if you argue the point that Ralph Nader is a choice you know you are only paying lip service, as a vote for Nader would be like a vote against McCain in your case as you have very obvious conservative values which would result in a vote for Obama in essence.Here's Nader's response to those who say a vote for him is a vote for the republican candidate.
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Eric, you never read my post properly, I never said a vote for Nader is a republican vote.
I said if you are generally conservative or libertarian (closer to conservative values) a vote for Nader would take away from the republican candidate as well as if you are a liberal minded voter that votes for him will result in a loss for the Dems.
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