I Believe (to address the complaints of last week)

JuanV.Soler

Humans established only a concise, explicative term...!
"TRINITY" was a proper proposed name, not an "invention"!

SO, *** , NEVER TELLS HUMAN ABOUT TRINITY and human comes and establish a concise, explicative term , in terms that it is a proposed name, , and it is not an invention.

Come on Cornel,
it was all about trying to grasp, *** s identity so that it could not be comprehended but by those who proposed it.

A GREAT SIN, in my view.
I am not saying that it was done on purpose, I am saying that, that was and is, the result of that thinking. And, because the result of that has been the confussion and the need to get an explanation by the Church who holds that believe AND that makes the path to *** to have to get the Church´s approval, wich is nonsense, and, since it has not been changed yet, it is a sin. A BIG ONE.
IS NOT IT ?

*** , is for everyone and is easy
and heart catches without the need of rational puzzle thinking.

I THINK YOU SHOULD LET YOURSELF FEEL RATHER THAN READ TO GET WHAT SUITS YOU BEST.

written with care for you, indeed.
honest.

remus

My point exactly.

EDIT: i just re read what i wrote and it makes little to no sense, please ignore it

bellwells

@remus said:

Is their anything wrong with believing that someone of a particular religious bent is wrong?

Actually, I think I know what you mean. I have a problem with Islam, so I would have to answer your question with a "no".

remus

Could i ask what that problem is? im intrigued.

bellwells

For me, it started in 1979 with the Iran hostage crisis and then 9/11. I have not seen "moderate" Muslims condemn what happened and I don't think I ever will. I believe Islam aims for dominance.

Edit: They seem to be getting their way in Europe, don't you think?

remus

I've heard quite a few Muslims condemn those terrorist events, one of them (the one doing the condemning) was even a good friend of mine.

In the least offensive way possible, i wonder, have you spoken to many muslims about it?

bellwells

No, I have not spoken with any Muslims about this. I think many people are looking for a more public denunciation. And it has not happened. Ask your friends if they believe in taqiyya, the Muslim form of deception meant to conceal their true beliefs and feelings (among other things).

cornel

J.V.S.,

Here are a few direct verses (there are many others):

“I and my Father are one.” (John 10:30)

“Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.” (John14:9-11)

Cornel

remus

Unfortunately im no longer in contact with my friend, but he was always fairly open about his beliefs and feelings, and from my brief research on Taqiyya it seems it is only allowed in situations that could cause mental or physical harm to the believer. Personally i think thats fair.

I think the root of this disagreement we're having is that it is all about belief. I believe that the majority of Muslims have good intentions and do not wish to hurt lots of people, whereas you believe that the majority of Muslims "aim for dominance." We will both be able to find points to back up our arguments, as their are Muslims on both sides of the argument, but neither of us will ever be proved right or wrong. Its the nature of belief.

solo

Personally I believe any radical or fundemetal belief is dangerous, any religion that requires one to convert others is scary.

You don't see many athiests knocking on your door trying to show you the light do you?

As for quoting the Bible in an attempt to make a point to people that do not believe in it is pretty futile.

remus

I think it's hard to generalise that much, solo, as belief is relative to your own viewpoint. Some people would see my beliefs as fairly radical but those of pro-lifers fairly normal, as it depends on what your own beliefs are.

bellwells

Remus, a deeper look at the practice of taqiyya will reveal a more sinister objective, I think. One based on deception and lies. Nowhere in the Christian religion (or other major religions either, I bet) is there such a tenant. A Muslim is allowed to look you in the eye and smile while all the while despising and hating you in his heart.

solo

Remus, I am an athiest, so it's not that difficult to make such assumptions.

bellwells

Radical Islamists are more dangerous than fundamentalist Christians. The Christians will only knock on your door while the Islamists will chop off your damn head.

gaganraj

where did you develop these xenophobic and racist views? And if you think fundamentalists christians are not dangerous, think again. Bush is a fundamentalist christian, and at his hand he is murdering thousands in the middle east. How does that sit with Jesus?

bellwells

@gaganraj said:

where did you develop these xenophobic and racist views? And if you think fundamentalists christians are not dangerous, think again. Bush is a fundamentalist christian, and at his hand he is murdering thousands in the middle east. How does that sit with Jesus?

Racist...I love this word. It has absolutely no meaning whatsoever anymore. It's thrown around by liberals in a failed attempt to impart guilt. Funny thing, it only works on other liberals. And so what if I don't like Islamists?

I guess my world view is more black and white.

gaganraj

i could care less whether you feel guilty or not. that isn't the point. the point i'm making is that you're unable to see beyond a tiny narrow view point. do you hate the japanese because of pearl harbor? what about disgruntled army vets because of McVeigh? Russians because of the Cold War? Does this come across? The world isn't black and white. its all a shade of grey. Do you really fall for the propoganda that easily? Who is the evil empire this week?

Try and challenge yourself beyond a knee jerk reaction to something you're unfamiliar with and obviously scared of. Let me rephrase. Your views aren't racist. They are uneducated, reactionary and unenlightened. At least if you're educated on the subject, your hate can be a little more informed.

Paris

Christian religions have been perpetrating atrocities for centuries and to imply that American hands are unsoiled is ludicrous. Christian persecution has been rampant throughout history and the United States is soiled in blood. You guys love to shroud yourselves in the flag and blather on about the founding fathers and the constitution while conveniently skirting the systematic eradication of first nations peoples and their culture by Jesuits and other religious orders. Priests abusing the very children they were supposed to be 'saving'. And while we're at it how about those wonderful Christian supremist folks from the south who enslaved and murdered blacks and continue to embrace their racist hatred to this day. And here we are today, a 'born again' American president who under the influence of religious extremists like Karl Rove have embarked on a holy war to spite the infidels.

bellwells

Tell me where you're from, Paris, and I'll be glad to dig up some dirt on your cultural history.

bellwells

My WW2 Vet Father does not like the Japs, for example. And for good reason. My opinion of Islamists is also far from uninformed or uneducated. I think you're all wrapped in some sort of nuanced enlightened political correctness. It's OK to despise, really.