Podium 2.0?

david_h · 15 Apr 2008, 17:10

Igor

What Stinkie is referring to is that reflection, opacity, light, etc will be applied to the material using a material editor instead of directly onto a surface. That would be much better as one can create materials like a specialized glass and save it for use on another project.

Wow! That will be terrific. The idea of creating specialized materials rather than tweaking and experimaenting project to project will be great.

I know I am gonna get yelled at for this, but any idea on Dates?

solo · 15 Apr 2008, 17:14

A date? .... sorry mate I'm married.

Honestly however I do not know, I do however feel it's very soon.

Stinkie · 15 Apr 2008, 17:26

@solo said:

Honestly however I do not know, I do however feel it's very soon.

lol They're actually gonna stop working on it? I thought I'd never see the day.

All the goodness of Podium + eight cores ... sigh. I'm gonna do speed tests for weeks!

Don't forget that little contest we agreed on, cowboy. My Mac versus your BillBox.

igor · 15 Apr 2008, 18:53

thanks for clearing the light/reflection misconception, guys.

oh ya, podium 2.0 is going to be awsome

david_h · 15 Apr 2008, 19:37

@solo said:

A date? .... sorry mate I'm married.

Honestly however I do not know, I do however feel it's very soon.

Darn .. .I forgot. Me too.

i noticed that is written like iGor, like iPod. it it pronounce Eye-Gore?

kwistenbiebel · 15 Apr 2008, 21:20

I have been kind of quiet about Podium lately.
Still loving Podium 1...but sooooooo much craving for the new version, like for that awesome woman that is way out of your league ....not that such a thing would ever happen to me....err..well....thats' why I am into 'computers'

igor · 16 Apr 2008, 00:39

to answer your question, david, its still pronounced "eegor", like DR. frankenstien's assistant. i thought id make a sort of play on words... exept with spelling...

from what ive heard on this forum and the podium forum, 2.0 is going to p4wn indigo and the rest of the rendering softwares.

Stinkie · 16 Apr 2008, 07:47

@igor said:

from what ive heard on this forum and the podium forum, 2.0 is going to p4wn indigo and the rest of the rendering softwares.

Whoa, there! Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. While Podium 2.0 will be great at a lot of things, it won't replace all other rendering apps.

I gave up thinking there's an Ultimate Renderer some time ago. Get a couple, and use what is best for the project you're working on.

That said, I do think Podium 2.0 will go places.

remus · 16 Apr 2008, 08:25

tie expand on what stinkie said: indigo and maxwell (and lots of others) are unbiased render engines, meaning theyre very good at getting physically accurate results, especially if you can setup the materials properly and have a lot of time on your hands to let the render bake.

Podium and kerkythea (and many others) are biased renderers, this means theyre generally faster than unbiased renderers but dont always get to a good looking final render.

Taking that in to account: unbiased renderers tend to be better for exterior scenes where there arent too many srfaces for the light to bounce off (lots of surfaces=lots of reflections=lots of calculations, and so a long render time) and biased renderers are generally better for interior scenes, whee the high face count doesnt make so much difference bcause of their unbiased nature.

sepo · 16 Apr 2008, 10:39

Remus..that is kind of correct. All render engines are sensitive to polycount.... some more and some less.
Although P2 will be biased render it will be based on accurate light calculations.

And Yes we are working on it ....and no I can't disclose the date yet.

Stinkie · 16 Apr 2008, 11:10

@sepo said:

Although P2 will be biased render it will be based on accurate light calculations.

Cool. I can see serious advantages to that.

If Podium 2.0 makes my Maxwell license obsolete, I expect a refund from you.

igor · 16 Apr 2008, 14:00

ok, i didnt mean p4wn as is replace, but rather run along sid the other ones.

exept with a better GUI

david_h · 16 Apr 2008, 18:26

@igor said:

to answer your question, david, its still pronounced "eegor", like DR. frankenstien's assistant.

It;s pronounced "FrAHnk -en STEEN"

also Thx guys for the description and explanation on the differences between rendering packages--and such . .biased and unbiase,etc. I understood maybe 3/4 of it, but I am getting there. Hope to be a serious render geek this year. Vive Podium Part Deux!!

Frederik · 16 Apr 2008, 18:43

@remus said:

tie expand on what stinkie said: indigo and maxwell (and lots of others) are unbiased render engines, meaning theyre very good at getting physically accurate results, especially if you can setup the materials properly and have a lot of time on your hands to let the render bake.

Podium and kerkythea (and many others) are biased renderers, this means theyre generally faster than unbiased renderers but dont always get to a good looking final render.

Please note that the current version of Podium uses only a part of the original KT render engine - the biased parts + raytracing...
However, it's so wrong to state that Kerkythea is only a biased render..!!

Kerkythea have the capability of both biased and unbiased render methods...!!!
Now - how many render applications can boast about that..??
(the unbiased methods are Metropolis Light Transport (MLT) as well as BiPT and even a MLT on top of BiPT..!!)

KT is a physically accurate Global Illumination render engine..!!
(which in addition allows the user to use Phonton mapping methods as well as simple ray trace method for non photo-realistic rendering...)

@stinkie said:

I gave up thinking there's an Ultimate Renderer some time ago. Get a couple, and use what is best for the project you're working on.

That's so well said...!!

remus · 16 Apr 2008, 18:57

Cheers for the corrections there frederik, i was thinking about the different render methods as i was typing, but decided to put kerky under the "biased" heading as i couldnt think of any others

Frederik · 16 Apr 2008, 19:09

No prob, remus...
Just needed to be clear, since such statements can lead to misunderstandings...

Stinkie · 16 Apr 2008, 21:58

@frederik said:

@stinkie said:

I gave up thinking there's an Ultimate Renderer some time ago. Get a couple, and use what is best for the project you're working on.

That's so well said...!!

Thanks. I'd add Kerky to my 'palette' if you boys had a mats tutorial that us non physics majors could understand.

This is NOT meant as a a 'my rendering app's better than yours remark', but when it comes to making rendering somewhat understandable (that a word?), I think many developers could learn from the Podium team (and let's not forget Whaat - he did an excellent job on them Indigo tuts).

General advice for rendering app developers: there's truckloads of SU fanatics out there who couldn't care les what a phong material is.

juju · 16 Apr 2008, 22:04

Phong? My girlfriend wears 'em...

Frederik · 18 Apr 2008, 07:51

@unknownuser said:

This is NOT meant as a a 'my rendering app's better than yours remark', but when it comes to making rendering somewhat understandable (that a word?), I think many developers could learn from the Podium team

I fully acknowledge that...
Don't forget that TBD started the Podium project while he was still part of the KT Team...
Why do you think KT have been the render engine behind Podium until now..??

@unknownuser said:

General advice for rendering app developers: there's truckloads of SU fanatics out there who couldn't care les what a phong material is.

And who told you that you need to..???
I'm sure that 90% of KT users doesn't know what a phong material is - yet they're able to make awesome renders...

I know that you've recently bought a Maxwell license... They also use phong materials... Is it something you think of..??
Hardly not - and you don't need to if you're using KT...

Stinkie · 18 Apr 2008, 10:32

I was merely trying to point out that many rendering app developers produce manuals that, well, aren't that good. Or just plain suck.

I was also trying to point out that you boys need a better mats manual. While I can see a lot of love, dedication and work went into the one you got now, it's virtually unreadable for novice users. I'm not the worst of judges in this regard: I do know a bit about rendering by now, and I write for a living.

I won't mention what I think of the Maxwell manual.