How to make SU stop guessing and do what I want
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SU keeps making assumptions that it must think are helpful, but that make it impossible for me to get useful work done. For example:
--Shapes somehow get glued to shapes that they aren't touching and have no (logical) connection to. Then when I move one, the other gets dynamically distorted.
--When I try to position a shape, SU lets me put it everywhere except where I want it. I've read the help on Snap, and on Move, and have tried holding down all the key combinations that have occurred to me, but haven't figured out how to turn this off.
--When I'm drawing a line, SU insists on making its endpoint lie on a nearby green dot, even though that screws up my diagram. I can't figure out how to override it.I've taken the self-paced tutorials, and the older general-intro video. I've read through all the tips. I've searched the help file, and at least scanned all its pages. I confess that I haven't devoted however many days it would take to view all 25 or so videos.
I'm hoping there are one or two key insights that I'm missing that can switch me over to productive baseline-level use of SU. I'll appreciate any suggestions of what they might be. Thanks in advance for any help.
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There isnt any way to turn off the effects you are seeing. Its called inferencing, and youll have to get used to it! (in the nicest possible way
)It is just a case of geting used to the whole ssytem though, when you get the hang of it it can be very useful.
To aovid some of the problems your currently having:
- to stop geometry sticking, you'll need to use groups. These basically stop things sticking.
2)In SU shapes deform if you only move one part of them (a line, a face etc.) If you only want to move a single face, without it affectign anything else, your pobably best of moving a copy of the face and then deleting the original face. (To move a copy, select the move tool and then hit ctrl before you do anything else, you shuld see a little '+' appear next to the cursor)
3)If SU is infereing the endpoint of a line, and you dont want it to, zoom in, this should make it easier to stop SU infering and thus easier for you to put your line where you want it.
Keep asking questions if you need to
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Yes, Bungo, Remus is correct. Many new users of SU complain about the effects of the inference engine but when you get used to it (after a shorttime of practice), you'll never look back. Without this, drawing and moving things in a virtual 3D space but in a physical 2D monitor would be extremely hard.
The only way to stop the inference engine is to use the Shift key (once you get the right direction of drawing/moving things), use the VCB for precise inputs and zoom in to be able to decide which inference point you want to use (if you want to use any).
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One problem I have is trying to place things together on a center point. Or when you want 2 things to connect in a way the inference system isn't what you want. Does anyone have any tips for things like this?
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For your first problem, you may find "centerpoint.rb" useful. Download it from here.
It creates a guide point in the geometrical centre of any shape - then use that as an inference point.For your other problem - as I see no example in this case - cannot suggest anything.
Edit: Jon was quicker and much more precise but I'll submit my post anyway...
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Hi Bungo, hope this helps;
@unknownuser said:
SU keeps making assumptions that it must think are helpful, but that make it impossible for me to get useful work done.
Whatever you are drawing is irrelevant, SU doesn't know what you are drawing so it can't make assumptions.
@unknownuser said:
--Shapes somehow get glued to shapes that they aren't touching and have no (logical) connection to. Then when I move one, the other gets dynamically distorted.
Sounds like something is touching. If surfaces are touching in SU, Su allows them both to be manipulated together. If you want to isolate some surfaces or some geometry you need to make it into a group or a component. To make a group select the geometry and then select make group off the edit dropdown menu ( or right click make group). To make a component select the geometry and then select make component off the edit dropdown menu (or right click make component). The difference between a component and a group: a group is unique, whereas if you make a component and then copy it you can alter one copy and the original or other duplicates will all be altered too.
If you want to alter what is in a group or a component:
To alter a group select the edit group from the edit drop down menu (or right click edit group)
To alter a component select edit component from the edit drop down menu (or right click edit component). Or double click on the group to open it.
To "close" the group or component when you have finished editing it select Close Group/Component off the edit dropdown menu. Or double click off it to close it.
@unknownuser said:
--When I try to position a shape, SU lets me put it everywhere except where I want it. I've read the help on Snap, and on Move, and have tried holding down all the key combinations that have occurred to me, but haven't figured out how to turn this off.
It is simple with practice but this ruby might make it easier for you. http://wiki.renderplus.com/index.php?title=Space_Design
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Thanks for the help guys. That center point script sounds like a godsend. Thanks a million.
As to what I meant by being unable to connect things, case in point, yesterday I was trying to join 2 peices. A cylinder to an extruded piece that was part you touch on a knob. So I was trying to place the little cylinder and then intersect them and delete the little cylinder. But for the life of me I couldn't grab the cylinder by the part I wanted.. and then I couldn't get it to connect where I wanted. So I had to make a rig like thing out of a flat plane and try to use that to guide the piece in place where I wanted. It was a nightmare.. and there always seems to be these kind of measuring and placement issues. I guess maybe it's just something you learn to plan around over time when you are building objects.
Bungo, one thing that helps me a lot now and took me a long time to learn is to use the arrow keys when moving objects. Get the move tool, click the object you want to move(something thats either double clicked -- so what you want is blue -- or grouped and the group selected) click it once with the move tool.. then hit the arrow key you want to move in the direction you need.
The other thing that is really useful and scary is the outliner.. just keep working with it. It is really powerful. It does things you couldn't do any other way. It also helps you find pieces you hid and can't find anymore.
If you have any quesions PM me... I am a fellow noob so I don't mind helping. I know your pain.
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@charlie1138 said:
...Bungo, one thing that helps me a lot now and took me a long time to learn is to use the arrow keys when moving objects. Get the move tool, click the object you want to move(something thats either double clicked -- so what you want is blue -- or grouped and the group selected) click it once with the move tool.. then hit the arrow key you want to move in the direction you need...
In addition to this advice by Charlie about using the arrow keys to lock the move tool on a specific axis, you can always align the axes to the objects you are working with so moving parts along the standard axes is easier. Later you can reset the original axis system by right clicking on any of the axes and choosing "Reset".
This may have helped you, Charlie, when suffering with the alignment of those cylinders and such -
@charlie1138 said:
One problem I have is trying to place things together on a center point. Or when you want 2 things to connect in a way the inference system isn't what you want. Does anyone have any tips for things like this?
Charlie, i think you will find using the tape tool and protractor tool for creating construction lines will be your biggest help here. Attach the "erase all construction lines" command to a short cut key. That way you can go crazy putting constructions lines everywhere and finding intersections then clear it away with the touch of a button
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If you are working with extruded shapes like cylinders it can be helpful to temporarily turn on (make visible) the hidden edges. Doing so will make it much clearer where are the points that SketchUp is inferencing to. (The obvious ones being all endpoints, less obvious the line midpoints -- both of which are much clearer with hidden edges displayed).
Like Mirjman suggests, using guidelines as temporary construction lines can eliminate much frustration. I use them extensively when I model and find their use very intuitive.
With regards to Bungo198's concerns with distortions upon moving what are thought to be independent objects: if they truly aren't connected then the problem may relate to what is really selected when the move is made. Sometimes if you use a marque box to make a selection you may be selecting more objects than what you assume. Your move is really moving more objects than you intended. The way around this is to make your selections more carefully. When you've made a selection, sometimes it is handy to turn on the x-ray display mode temporarily just to confirm something behind hasn't also been accidentally selected.
All new SketchUp users should really take the time to watch the wealth of tutorial movies that are available. In addition to the official Google ones there are the ones at the site for the 'SketchUp for Dummies' book site and at the 'go-2-school' training site. The little movies clearly explain the basics that are difficult for the rest of us to put clearly into words. Watching those movies is your best investment in learning SketchUp quickly. You may also learn without experiencing any frustration - a good thing.
Regards, Ross
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Thanks Ross and Mirjman. Those are some great pointers!
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Thanks to everyone for so many quick responses. For reasons that still baffle me, the first two or three times I checked back I couldn't find my post and so couldn't benefit from your help until now. So I've unfortunately been continuing to attack this on my own. FYI this is where things got to:
(1) Shapes sticking together: Group solved it, as Remus pointed out. And thanks to Jon for the clear distinction between Groups and Components.
(2) Controlling the position of a shape: For whatever reason I didn't have any luck using the arrow keys to move objects (as Charlie suggested); must have been misreading the instructions. Triggered by other posts in the Forum I tried Nudge (from Smustard), and it did the job nicely.
(3) Drawing a line to my own points rather than SU's: Still no luck on this one. Didn't manage to enlist VCB. What I've ended up doing is creating temporary faces, using Nudge to move them so their corner points are where I want my line bends, and then drawing the line. The inference engine helpfully forces my line onto the temporary objects and I delete them when I'm done. It gets the job done, but there must be a better way.
Thanks for all the other useful tips: mirjman on construction lines, Gaieus on axis alignment, Ross on X-ray mode and the Sketchup for Dummies site. I'll be using all of them.
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@unknownuser said:
Drawing a line to my own points rather than SU's: Still no luck on this one. Didn't manage to enlist VCB. What I've ended up doing is creating temporary faces, using Nudge to move them so their corner points are where I want my line bends, and then drawing the line. The inference engine helpfully forces my line onto the temporary objects and I delete them when I'm done. It gets the job done, but there must be a better way.
Hi
Upload your file here, we'll take a look at it. -
I wrote a whole long detailed answer and accidently hit the back button on my mouse and lost it all. So I apologize but this one will be brief, but hopefully succint.
- To find the VCB which appears at the bottom right hand side, click on the "maximize" icon at the top right of your working window of SketchUp. ( You may have SketchUp slightly minimize.
- To move items successfully do NOT use the move tool by clicking on any old surface of the object. Click on the point you wish to align with another point. Click on endpoints or midpoints to align and snap to other endpoints and midpoints.
- To stop SketchUp from wanting to snap to things that are too far away, change your Snapping precision. Window>Model info>Units. Change precison and snapping measures for Length units and angle Units to something much smaller and you will find you won't be forced to snap to some "gross" measure anymore.
- Surfaces that have been created on another surface and then moved away are actually still attached. same goes for components. You will only be able to move off these surfaces in the same plane anyway. According to the rules of "sticky" geometry SketchUp should really be distorting the original surface and edges when you move the smaller surface off, but it doesn't because there are just too many 'folds" that it would need to make. Instead SketchUp just knows that the surface is still attached and behaves accordingly. So if you try to move any part of the original surface, the item that you moved off will be affected as well because it is still attached. To properly move a surface or component off of the original surface, after you have moved it off, right click on it and from the context menu, click on "unglue"
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