PlusSpec Lite
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@pbacot said:
Is that how some BIM software works now? Can it take loads from the information provided, roof materials, wind and earthquake criteria then make shear walls and headers---and put them in the design with documentation?
I'm not saying any of these analysis packages do this fully yet but I am saying this is where it should go and will go. If I can work this information out in my head with some paper and pencil then it can just as easily be programmed.
The technician need only enter in the designer criteria (ie. Wind Speed, Ground Snow Load, Seismic values) and the software should be able to do the rest given the geometry of the structure and some other material parameters.
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Then you can put in the style of house you want...
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@jql said:
Medeek.
Or, to put it in other terms, if humans can be replaced there, it's because the replacements are also not machines anymore.
...Or, to put it in other terms, if humans can be replaced there, it's because they are not humans anymore.
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I think we can agree on that Saurus.
The thing is that most architecture is inhuman anyway. It is boring and lacks individuallity. Standardized to a point that makes BIM possible.
And that's also why I was impressed with the architectural examples I cited above. I wanted to see how the complex structural presentations and building take offs Plusspec seems to do with Standardized housing, would compare to those BIM model examples.
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@medeek said:
It looks like they've just released PlusSpec Lite:
Certainly more affordable than the full version. I may have to sign up just to give it a go.
I'm still trying to figure out what the limitations are of the lite version versus the pro version.
Does anyone have more information?
I have watched the videos about plusspec, and i am surprised, because the cross sections of the bars are not checked; there is no structural analysis done by the program; what is does is put structural elements on top of each other, thats all
Are houses really built like that in Australia and USA? -
I believe so glro... It all seems so standard...
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Built like what?
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@pbacot said:
Built like what?
like the model produced by plusspec
structurally, it is not correct most of the time (cross section of bars are not checked in relation to the load they have to carry nor their length)
i think maybe it is OK for an estimate, but not for construction -
How can it be good for estimate and not for construction. The idea of an estimate is to predict, with maximum accuracy possible what the construction will cost. In here it's common practice to have an as closed as possible project before a final estimate is done. We are legally liable if our projects quantities get past a margin of admissible error. So, an estimate, may have an innacurate price as that varies depending of chosen contractor, but not an innacurate structural design as that is what is the basis for the contract that the contractor will have to comply with.
What it feels to me is that plusspec works very well in a lot of scenarios exactly because it deals with standardized construction methods. I was under the impression theses bim constructions would automatically comply to regulations and therefore would require nothing else.
That's not how we work here so, of course, I might have missed the whole point.
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@jql said:
How can it be good for estimate and not for construction. ...
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I was under the impression theses bim constructions would automatically comply to regulations and therefore would require nothing else.because no structural analysis has been done!
if you look at this floor beams adjustment around stairway
you surely notice it cannot be built like this; it would be necessary to add some columns below the beams.
It might not change a lot the estimate, but from a structural point of view, it is not correct.BIM doesn't mean it is correct; it only means it is very well documented.
At least it is my understanding -
@glro said:
BIM doesn't mean it is correct; it only means it is very well documented.
At least it is my understandingThat would depend on the level of BIM being implemented.
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Hello All,
I also want to clarify BIM and VDC (Virtual Design and Construction).
BIM is simply 'Information'. When you draw with the PlusSpec tools, they are filled with Information that can be used in many different ways (BOMs, product schedules, etc). Eg. If you draw a wall, it knows that it is a wall, the type of wall, the wall height, the materials and structure used, the quantities of materials, etc. When a lot of people think of BIM, they also think of parametric tools (eg. being able to modify the building components via attributes). And PlusSpec's tools are parametric also. You can simply modify or re-generate the building components that you have drawn at any time.
PlusSpec is also VDC (and generates automated, customizable structure). However, although you generate structure - it is not a structural engineering software. PlusSpec does not do any structural analysis. The user/professional will need to capture all of this information. This is part of every professional's due diligence. However, it is very easy to adjust the structure, and then add any additional requirements (eg. extra steel beams, columns, timber/lumber, etc).
What is the benefit of VDC?
- It helps you design smarter, and understand buildability from the start. It also allows you to start detailing from the outset (or at least consider details), instead of as just an afterthought.
- It makes for more accurate designs and 2D drawings. Many drafts-people accidentally dimension incorrectly. Eg. perhaps thinking that the walls they have used are structure to structure, when in fact the wall thickness includes finish materials. PlusSpec allows you to differentiate the model and easily control/understand structure vs finish.
- Value Engineering: Builders/Contractors and Engineers can more easily understand a VDC model. There is no need to decipher plans. Everyone can quickly see if something is not right and needs to be considered.
- Clash detection: By modeling in the Engineering (structure, MEP, etc) you can quickly understand if there is a problem, or material clash.
I'm also hearing a lot of comments regarding 'standard construction', and how BIM software (including PlusSpec) are more suited to this standard/simple construction types. The problem with all other Parametric 3D BIM software is that they are simply super-charged Drafting boards (and can struggle with custom shapes). They are also not focused around ‘design’. But that’s why PlusSpec is inside of SketchUp.
The best of parametric BIM tools (PlusSpec) and 3D sketching tools (SketchUp) = The Ultimate Design Tool! It's a level of freedom/flexibility that Revit, ArchiCAD and all the rest can only dream of.There are some custom shapes, or super bespoke items that are better off being drawn with SketchUp. Hell - that's SketchUp's power. But even in very custom projects, you would still be doing at least 80-90% of a project with the PlusSpec tools. And the small amount that you use SketchUp for, you can BIM with the PlusSpec BIM tool - which, allows you to add information, organize/layer and quantify these custom objects.
Hope this helps.
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@past tense of draw said:
I'm also hearing a lot of comments regarding 'standard construction', and how BIM software (including PlusSpec) are more suited to this standard/simple construction types. The problem with all other Parametric 3D BIM software is that they are simply super-charged Drafting boards (and can struggle with custom shapes). They are also not focused around ‘design’. But that’s why PlusSpec is inside of SketchUp.
The best of parametric BIM tools (PlusSpec) and 3D sketching tools (SketchUp) = The Ultimate Design Tool! It's a level of freedom/flexibility that Revit, ArchiCAD and all the rest can only dream of.There are some custom shapes, or super bespoke items that are better off being drawn with SketchUp. Hell - that's SketchUp's power. But even in very custom projects, you would still be doing at least 80-90% of a project with the PlusSpec tools. And the small amount that you use SketchUp for, you can BIM with the PlusSpec BIM tool - which, allows you to add information, organize/layer and quantify these custom objects.
Hope this helps.
Hi Drew,
I'm worried about custom. I'm not thinking custom as a detail or part of the building where you can afford designing it in Sketchup and specifically worry about it as something out of scope of the rest of the workflow, that you can use the Plusspec BIM tool and assign some attributes to that thing.
What if a building derives from a custom shape and not vertical walls and horizontal slabs?
What if all the walls of a building are of varying thicknesses from start to end?
What if construction methodology is not about wooden structures but other structures like concrete or masonry?
What if a roof isn't as the examples you show, but it's a concrete slab instead with a lot of insulation and waterproofing details or an horizontal green roof?
I haven't seen examples of those kind of buildings in your tutorials and I'm certainly not going to build as the buildings I see on your typical examples and that's why I can't justify Plusspec.
I know that with Revit I can model a mass study in either Revit and Sketchup and have it's surfaces converted into building elements automatically. I can work on them using certain parametric features (I haven't dealt with Revit for long so I don't know how well this as developed so far). In your case it seems that I would need to use the BIM tool and design those elements without parametrics and then use the PS tools for secondary stuff.
For people like me who don't deal with that kind of standard construction methodology you show at the site, who work well with sketchup and who would eventually choose a BIM package for more complex projects, Plusspec doesn't seem to fit.
Maybe it's a problem of the software's objective that doesn't fit mine, maybe it's only a marketing issue where the examples shown are not what I'm looking for. If the later is true then why not show us examples on how to achieve these kind of projects. I'd be happy with seeing how you achieved the Ronchamp model in the site, and how much of it is parametric and how those parametric walls deal with the custom roof, or how those parametric windows that have custom angled openings are worked.
What I imagine is that is built with Sketchup tools and you use the PS tool to create attributes on it, but that's exactly what I do right now too but I'd be very happy to read it's not.
Best regards, sorry for insisting and thanks for your patience. It's just that I know that I will need to transition to BIM eventually in the future and I'm trying to figure out which are my best options.
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I can't speak for other countries but 90% of the residential construction in the US is fairly cookie cutter in my opinion. Conventional framing with fairly standard foundation and roof systems.
Most of the design and engineering work is this type of non-complicated construction, straight walls, conventional buildings with fairly typical assemblies and components.
This type of building design lends itself well to software such as BIM, PlusSpec and others.
My goal to create an integrated design/engineering software is certainly possible within this scope.
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Hey JQL,
Thanks for your comments. I have answered below in blue.
What if a building derives from a custom shape and not vertical walls and horizontal slabs?
There is no problem here. You can use the tools however you like. There is no set workflow (eg. you have to draw walls first, or slab first, or anything else).What if all the walls of a building are of varying thicknesses from start to end?
No problem at all. You can control the thickness and construction type of each individual wall. You can then detail the different connections, as PlusSpec highlights this.What if construction methodology is not about wooden structures but other structures like concrete or masonry?
No problem. PlusSpec has masonry wall types (double masonry, single masonry) and a solid wall type (concrete, rammed earth, etc).What if a roof isn't as the examples you show, but it's a concrete slab instead with a lot of insulation and waterproofing details or an horizontal green roof?
No problem. Technically green roofs shouldn't be thought of as a 'roof' with building components. They are actually built up using the concrete slab tool, or the joist tool (timber/lumber or steel). You can then add the different insulation/waterproofing details as appropriate with the floor surface tool. LOD (Level of Detail) is very important to understand though. On the Lite page roof GIF you will see a very quick example of a flat roof.I haven't seen examples of those kind of buildings in your tutorials and I'm certainly not going to build as the buildings I see on your typical examples and that's why I can't justify Plusspec.
I know that with Revit I can model a mass study in either Revit and Sketchup and have it's surfaces converted into building elements automatically. I can work on them using certain parametric features (I haven't dealt with Revit for long so I don't know how well this as developed so far). In your case it seems that I would need to use the BIM tool and design those elements without parametrics and then use the PS tools for secondary stuff.
Revit is very limited here. PlusSpec has a similar workflow. You can change surfaces into flooring and roofing. We are also working on vertical surfaces (but this is much more complicated due to openings, etc). Most of our users simply trace the vertical surfaces with the wall types they want to use. It's still very quick.For people like me who don't deal with that kind of standard construction methodology you show at the site, who work well with sketchup and who would eventually choose a BIM package for more complex projects, Plusspec doesn't seem to fit.
Could you send me an example project showcasing the type of work you do?Maybe it's a problem of the software's objective that doesn't fit mine, maybe it's only a marketing issue where the examples shown are not what I'm looking for. If the later is true then why not show us examples on how to achieve these kind of projects. I'd be happy with seeing how you achieved the Ronchamp model in the site, and how much of it is parametric and how those parametric walls deal with the custom roof, or how those parametric windows that have custom angled openings are worked.
Unlike other BIM software, we suit Architects, Designers, Builders/Contractors and Estimators. Therefore, we do keep things simple when demonstrating. That being said, we will be creating more Architectural examples in the future.What I imagine is that is built with Sketchup tools and you use the PS tool to create attributes on it, but that's exactly what I do right now too but I'd be very happy to read it's not.
TThere are several workflows used, depending on the complexity. For the Lite version, it would most definitely be the latter.Best regards, sorry for insisting and thanks for your patience. It's just that I know that I will need to transition to BIM eventually in the future and I'm trying to figure out which are my best options.
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Hi Guys, I thought I should chime in here.
Engineering software and design software are two different things, yes we could add in calculations to beam sizes according to span, just like we did with the lintels over the windows in masonry construction, yet these are easy calculations, and they occur on cookie cutter homes and in custom homes. I think the advantage of having the structure associated with the construction method enables architects and designers to place walls with an understanding of consequence and this plays out more so when the client is more focused on a budget than they are aesthetics. One of the true benefits of Sketchup is that you can draw what you want wherever you want it yet it can also be seen as a disadvantage. PlusSpec highlights this in the structure view and also highlights tradition point loads for engineering consideration and also for the designers' consideration. Our/my goal with PlusSpec is to make our industry more efficient. I can't explain how frustrated I was when I first used Revit, sure it was parametric like PlusSpec but that was it, it still does not associate structure with its geometry, which makes projects very difficult to associate cost with, which therefore makes it almost impossible for designers to design to a budget.
In an ideal world, the 3D model is the central source of truth: Design, structure, maintenance, and cost. Having an engineer do their calculations and then making design change suggestions in the "engineers BIM/VDC" for approval, by the designer and or builder would equate to more efficient construction. This is where parametric geometry excels.
Guys i have built well more than 500 homes in my 28 years, and I designed and built at least 100 of those projects. I can't explain the difference in final output versus cost in any other way than dollar or percentage figures. I was getting a higher standard of product to my clients at a lower cost than my competitors and making 5-15% more net profit. I want everyone to enjoy these benefits as waste whether it be in time, material over and under orders or in dollars and cents can always be reduced and PlusSpec does that, sure it is not 100% yet, but it is a step further forward.
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PLusspec is still more expensive per year than Archicad and Vectorworks (and only has a fraction of their capabilities)---and if we decide not to renew, we have no software to work with.
Sell us a station, then let us decide if we want to upgrade every year. If we don't, at least we have last year's model to continue working with (if it was a stable version). There are still users producing solid work with SKP 8, and I have last year's version (20) of Archicad which I can use, if I wish, for the next 20 years at no ongoing cost.
I paid once for the licence. I own it. It is entirely my choice if I wish to upgrade to 21.In the face of your costing hi-jacks as a BIM puppy, your glowing mea-culpas are tiresome.
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