Naming Section Cuts?

[JQL]

And does that plugin could evolve to a section manager plugin?

[Charlie__V]

@sdmitch said:

@unknownuser said:

@sdmitch said:

@strang said:

Hi;
Is there a way to name and select individual Section Cut planes?
Thanks,
Ray Strang

Yes, using attributes.

sdmitch,
Does SU do this natively? (on tablet now w/o SU installed)

If so.....

Charlie

No, it requires a plugin.

May I remind you.....April Fools Day was near 2 weeks ago...I must admit youn had me though.
(thinking how in the world did I miss an obvious contextual option like that)

That said.....thanks for showing there is potential via plug-in........and thanks (again) for all of your selfless prior coding.

Charlie

[sdmitch]

@jql said:

And does that plugin could evolve to a section manager plugin?

Perhaps but I'm not sure what that would involve.

[JQL]

@sdmitch said:

@jql said:

And does that plugin could evolve to a section manager plugin?

Perhaps but I'm not sure what that would involve.

In terms of workflow? Objective? UI? Or in what terms...

Do you want me to clear how one could use it?

[sdmitch]

@jql said:

@sdmitch said:

@jql said:

And does that plugin could evolve to a section manager plugin?

Perhaps but I'm not sure what that would involve.

In terms of workflow? Objective? UI? Or in what terms...

Do you want me to clear how one could use it?

All of the above.

[JQL]

Mitch,

This seems a huge task and some things are probably impossible or would require extremelly clever hacks. All I can tell is how I would use it.

I'll be exhaustive as I know you're mostly in Sketchup for the ruby coding... (thank god for people like you!)

I have my models setup with scenes that I need for my arch projects. Some display regular views of the model some display perspective views. Sometimes I also have scenes for presentation schemes like axonometric perspectives, exploded or not or simplified versions of my projects (conceptual stages).

I use these scenes for work and presenting in Layout and Sketchup. However Sections in Sketchup are very limited as they impose a set of rules of engagement that imply hacking to get them right:

[list:cpz739jy][*:cpz739jy]SECTION VISIBILITY

• Sections have no specific way of controlling visibility of single sections. Either you turn them all visible or all invisible.

• This makes us use layers to do that. If a section is in layer X making X invisible turns off that section's visibility;

• This makes our project have layers that have no direct relation to geometry and are there just for section control;

• Layers panel becomes untidy wich is a workflow buster for people that rely on layers for their work (I've learnt not to...).
  [/cpz739jy]
  [:cpz739jy] ACTIVE SECTION CONTROL

• Layers don't control wich section is active or not;

• To do that we have to use Scenes;

• In scenes panel we have to create scenes for sections that establish wich is the active section and wich are the active layers;

• This is hard to setup and easy to mess up;
  [/cpz739jy]
  [:cpz739jy] SECTION CUT FACE FILL

• Sections in sketchup are also unfilled. What this means is that traditional architectural drawings have section outlines through wall finishes and a solid color that fills the solid parts of the project;

• Sketchup doesn't generate that fill so you have to adress that in creative ways or...;

• There are a couple of plugins that adress the above issue (Section Cut Face is the oldest and most reliable to me, but there is Skalp wich is commercial and full of stuff some people need).
  [/cpz739jy]
  [:cpz739jy] PRESENTATION AND EXPORT

• People use Sections for technical drawings or presentations;

• They export to CAD, export to pdf and then use them in vector/raster editors, or present them in Layout wich is getting popular but is still very limited (it's what I use), then I plot my technical drawings from Layout or export them to PDF and CAD (wich is hard but doable);

• I'm using them in Layout but, because sections generate a contour line automatically from the intersection of model's geometry with the section plan, and our models are not clean most of the times, that generated line is wrong and shouldn't be there. However, it's impossible to discard (it's the line in bold black in your gif);

• To heal it, we often use 2 or more scenes that we export to Layout or CAD;

• One is from the model view with the active section;

• The other is from the filled section cut face, isolated and with a transparent background.

• We use the second over the first and the unwanted parts of that section countour line are hidden.

• HOW SHOULD MANAGING SECTIONS IN SKETCHUP BEHAVE

• In an ideal world we'd have a section manager where we could have a simple list of sections and if we'd select a section it would simply become active and we could use it at any moment in our modelling or presentation inside Sketchup.

• We also shouldn't need to setup standard section scenes in Sketchup as they're basically an ortho view, aligned with a section plan, with an the active section and a predefined style.

• Also in a perfect world each section would be autofilled and the filled profile would override the section countour.

• Finally, in this perfect world, a section like this would be able to seamlessly export to Layout as a single scene, with the sectioncutface profile controlled in a different fashion from the model profiles and edges.[/listcpz739jy]

• HOWEVER I BELIEVE THAT:

• Is possible from a manager;

• Is also possible from that manager but only useful inside sketchup presentations as there's no way to read those in Layout, or save them in the model for export to other software without saving as scenes or exporting each at a time;

• This implies using SectionCutFace or similar, but always will require 2 overlayed scenes;

• The overlayed scenes are causing export issues so they will still cause them unless they could be merged in an external Sketchup model and that model would be individually sent to Layout and updated with each export. Layout has a new API that could help, I don't know.

It seems that the manager should be done by Sketchup team itself as it would require a revamp of sections functions.

For a developer like you it seems it would only be possible through a huge task and equally huge collection of hacks.

If you're still interested I could explain everything better or even throw in a lot of new features...

Say your mind.

[sdmitch]

Well that is certainly a lot to digest. Since I am only a Sketchup coder and not a Sketchup user, it takes me some time just to wrap my head around the problem.

Currently the plugin merely looks at all the SectionPlanes in the model and, if they have a "Name" attribute attached, collects those names in a selection list. As SectionPlanes are added and/or named, the "Update" button adds them to the list. The "Select" button activates it.

It should be simple enough to create a scene with the same name when the SectionPlanes are added and/or named. Of course I would have no way of knowing which layers should be visible unless the layer name can be associated in some way with the section name.

A lot to think about.

Sam

[JQL]

If you want to discuss anything just shoot it here, I'm subscribing the topic.

[strang]

Hi;
These are some very well thought out responses. Out of laziness, I'm going to quote off parts of JQL's fine comments:

*SECTION VISIBILITY

Sections have no specific way of controlling visibility of single sections. Either you turn them all visible or all invisible.
This makes us use layers to do that. If a section is in layer X making X invisible turns off that section's visibility;
This makes our project have layers that have no direct relation to geometry and are there just for section control;
Layers panel becomes untidy wich is a workflow buster for people that rely on layers for their work (I've learnt not to...)*

For me, I do not mind seeing all of the layers at once, as long as I can figure out which ones I am looking at. That is where being able to name them in a panel comes in. I probably would never bother to go beyond a default name assigned by the panel itself (Section Plane 1), except when that section cut is used in a scene. not all are; some are just there to help me get around in the model while building it. But, if I could turn on all of the Section Planes at once (as Sketchup does now), hover over each one in turn and have it display the scenes that it is used in, that would be good information.

*ACTIVE SECTION CONTROL

Layers don't control wich section is active or not;
To do that we have to use Scenes;
In scenes panel we have to create scenes for sections that establish wich is the active section and wich are the active layers;
This is hard to setup and easy to mess up;*

The fragility of this arrangement is my biggest issue, but I do not have any suggestions as to how to address it.

SECTION CUT FACE FILL
Sections in sketchup are also unfilled. What this means is that traditional architectural drawings have section outlines through wall finishes and a solid color that fills the solid parts of the project;
Sketchup doesn't generate that fill so you have to adress that in creative ways or...;
There are a couple of plugins that adress the above issue (Section Cut Face is the oldest and most reliable to me, but there is Skalp wich is commercial and full of stuff some people need).

Automatically filled sections would be excellent. I have several ways to do it, but they are all repetitive, and almost always required if a Section Cut is to be used in a scene. The option to default to a filled section would be very useful.

*PRESENTATION AND EXPORT
People use Sections for technical drawings or presentations;....

...To heal it, we often use 2 or more scenes that we export to Layout or CAD;
One is from the model view with the active section;
The other is from the filled section cut face, isolated and with a transparent background.
We use the second over the first and the unwanted parts of that section countour line are hidden.*

True. What I think we are talking about is a script that would automatically export 2 scenes into Layout from one command. First, the "PLAN" (or whatever scene you are exporting) which shows the cut away interior detail, and then the scene with the filled section (Plan FILL) on top of it. You would need to be able to link 2 scenes in Sketchup to tell the program to repeat the "insert" operation twice whenever a particular scene (in this case, that would be insert"PLAN" scene) was invoked. Inserting a scene called "PLAN" would automatically first insert the "PLAN" scene, then the "Plan FILL" scene on top of it. However, now that I think of it, this may be a command inside Layout, not Sketchup.

HOW SHOULD MANAGING SECTIONS IN SKETCHUP BEHAVE
In an ideal world we'd have a section manager where we could have a simple list of sections and if we'd select a section it would simply become active and we could use it at any moment in our modelling or presentation inside Sketchup.
We also shouldn't need to setup standard section scenes in Sketchup as they're basically an ortho view, aligned with a section plan, with an the active section and a predefined style.

First, I set up my commonly desired scenes w/ views and cuts in Sketchup templates, and it seems to work OK.

Second, I think the complexity of this task sky rockets once this new Section Cuts panel is asked to work in conjunction with a counterpart in Layout. If that is possible, then great. But I would not want to forego improving the function of Section Cuts in Sketchup because it was not possible to make it work in Layout as well.

Going back to my original post, The ability to open a panel, see all of the section planes listed, to name them, and possibly to be able to activate them- that would really help my workflow. All of the rest would be wonderful, but this is the bottom line for me.

Again, thanks for all of your work and consideration.

Ray Strang

[sonder]

I typically run at least a dozen sections (not counting floor plans and RCP) on all my projects. I've found over time, that the easiest/fastest way to deal with the organization of both layer and scene management is to create a separate section file. This file has the base model imported as a reference and is never edited. This file only produces section drawings so it limits the number of layers as well as scenes in a given file. I do the same thing for RCP.

SU currently does not have a native way to name section planes. If you creating any type of Linework from the section plan, you can group the section plane with the LW. Then you can name it.

[JQL]

@unknownuser said:

This file has the base model imported as a reference and is never edited. This file only produces section drawings so it limits the number of layers as well as scenes in a given file. I do the same thing for RCP.

Our workflow differ in this point as I use sections for both work and presentation purposes. I cannot have them separate from my regular model as the iteraction between sectionface and model is constant and evolving from day one until final project.

What I tend to do is use layer panel plugin to hide a lot of layers and forget about the scenes tab and manage my scenes from scene manager, where scenes are better finetuned and I can find them faster as I group them by names.

Still, it's a lot of fuss.

[sonder]

@jql said:

@unknownuser said:

This file has the base model imported as a reference and is never edited. This file only produces section drawings so it limits the number of layers as well as scenes in a given file. I do the same thing for RCP.

Our workflow differ in this point as I use sections for both work and presentation purposes. I cannot have them separate from my regular model as the iteraction between sectionface and model is constant and evolving from day one until final project.

What I tend to do is use layer panel plugin to hide a lot of layers and forget about the scenes tab and manage my scenes from scene manager, where scenes are better finetuned and I can find them faster as I group them by names.

Still, it's a lot of fuss.

Actually mine are always evolving as well. You simply just need to update the reference. I mainly do the separate file to minimize the scene and layer management. It also allows me to run separate files on different machines at the same time. Since the actual model is never edited in the section file, only those tasks related to sections occurs - scene management, section placement, generating section Linework. Same for the RCP and the Site models.

Im very confident this would work for your workflow as well.

[JQL]

I know what you mean and I'm thankful for your attention. I use that workflow for xrefing parts of my project, however I work on the model while working with sections and I work in SectionCutFaces as much as I work on the model.

What I mean is that my work with sections evolves a lot more than:

@unknownuser said:

scene management, section placement, generating section Linework

I understand that kind of work doesn't require working on the model as it is already closed or evolving elsewhere.

The work I do on sections defines a lot of what happens in the model and so I work on a section and the model changes wich would make the referenced model obsolete and a nightmare to keep updating everytime:

Here's a very small example of what I'm talking about (click the gif):

The example itself is stupid but I work all project details like this I'm changing a detail and checking it in the model and I do a lot of these kind of doors that join with closets or shelfs or kitchen cabinets... I can't design them all in 3D, I must design them in section cut faces and then adapt the 3D model to match them.

It's pretty interesting doing them with sketchup instead of CAD.

[sonder]

Sorry, I should have been more clear - when I was talking sections, I was referring to actual vertical building sections. I do keep the sections that create the plan views in the base model as you are showing. My base model will generate scenes for floor plans, roof plans and elevations. The Section file I mentioned, that have the base file referenced, only generate building sections and they are graphic in nature. Their sole purpose is to provide height information and for keying details and assemblies.

[JQL]

Sonder,

To be fair then I also should be more clear. I have my vertical sections on the same model too because what I do on horizontal sections, I also do on vertical sections.

Also vertical sections have the added value of easily show the particular spaces where 3d models need more attention. It makes it easy to navigate to a place where you need more work done in the model and it's easy to get inside it with the active section.

I used to do that with temporary sections but I tended to forget to erase those or I sometimes would erase sections I should keep.

These are the reasons that make it difficult to disconnect them from the model I'm working with.

However, I'm pretty sure this conversation will come to mind when it fits a particular building's workflow.

Thanks again,