What would you charge for this?
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@unknownuser said:
roof not meeting reality
....that makes sense. I have seen some builders debate roofs for days...
Here is as good a contractors formula as any.
Check the price of a good meal at your local burger shop....now multiply by 1.5......now multiply it times 7.5 hours (a days work) times 2, (for two days total).
In my case here in Ontario a burger meal is approx. 15 bucks so the formula is..
(151.5)(7.52)= $337.50 Canadian - If it is truly two days work
Just replace the cost of my burger with yours and of course convert from Canadian dollars.
Beware, there are many ways to skin this cat and there are a list of reasons. This is just a quick way of getting your price close across geographic regionsbecause it is different everywhere. I also take into consideration that you are a rookie. When you have completed 10,000 hours of modeling or better you will look back and understand what I mean....and you will still be confused about pricing.
Cheers!
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@roland joseph said:
@unknownuser said:
roof not meeting reality
....that makes sense. I have seen some builders debate roofs for days...
Here is as good a contractors formula as any.
Check the price of a good meal at your local burger shop....now multiply by 1.5......now multiply it times 7.5 hours (a days work) times 2, (for two days total).
In my case here in Ontario a burger meal is approx. 15 bucks so the formula is..
(151.5)(7.52)= $337.50 Canadian - If it is truly two days work
Just replace the cost of my burger with yours and of course convert from Canadian dollars.
Beware, there are many ways to skin this cat and there are a list of reasons. This is just a quick way of getting your price close across geographic regionsbecause it is different everywhere. I also take into consideration that you are a rookie. When you have completed 10,000 hours of modeling or better you will look back and understand what I mean....and you will still be confused about pricing.
Cheers!
The input is much appreciated. I can't imagine having 10,000 hours under my belt. I've done around 2,000 but it was all for personal use.... that's a really different beast. I put a great deal more attention to detail into personal projects.
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@unknownuser said:
Thanks to all who answered!
I remember clearly how difficult it was to get into this business in my area. I was always grasping for ways to justify my charges. I also remember your question being asked many times and in each case no one really provided any guidance. Not sure why people in this business clam up when you mention money...must be some sort of insecurity we have.
Anyway don't feel disappointed. No one has every been able to broach this subject here and get any real meaningful answers. I'd be happy to help you price jobs in the future.
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@roland joseph said:
Not sure why people in this business clam up when you mention money...must be some sort of insecurity we have.
I believe that you might be right or wrong. There is no accurate price for our kind of job. There's a lot of subjectiveness involved. It's not apples or nails.
You are selling stuff that people get emotionally attached to and not commodities.
Then you can charge whatever you want and that is valid if people still pay you.
If the job you're trying to make is simply technical... then that's different, you're not trying to be a creative person but a person that produces commodities. Then that should have a standard price and you're in direct competition with people that do similar stuff. You just have to find them and know what's the price they charge. I've no experience to share on that.
One clear thing for me is that you must charge for the hours you are working on the project and for the hours you are not working on the project but you're still breathing. Yes, you have to keep breathing between projects you know... and you have to pay for your pc and sketchup and electricity and everything you need to have so you are available for a two days freelance job. Freelancing isn't a permanent job so if you're living on that alone you'll have to charge for when you're not working too...
How many freelancers have permanent work? I don't know, but I know people do hire freelancers because of one or more of the following:
- some of them charge too little (wich seems a good deal but...);
- they tend to be available when people need them and if not then another will take his place (this is very good but should cost more than permanent work);
- Or... they're extremely good and passionate at the jobs they do and an unvaluable force on your side when you need them... In this case Freelancers are either expensive but unvaluable or cheap but still unexperienced and may cause some mistake. (this sort of freelancers are the ones you want to have on your side but also the ones who will not be freelancers for long.)
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@unknownuser said:
Then that should have a standard price and you're in direct competition with people that do similar stuff. You just have to find them and know what's the price they charge. I've no experience to share on that.
I'm just shaking my head..
..sorry, It is nice to see that at least someone has the balls to give it a try....cheers to you!Buy the way foxcore, I have forgotten that there is this coven of "Premier Members" in the background talking it up. Because it is so sensitive a subject, joining them should get you more help. That will give you the option of playing with us guys in the fish bowl later if you feel like hanging around with the peons.
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@roland joseph said:
@unknownuser said:
Then that should have a standard price and you're in direct competition with people that do similar stuff. You just have to find them and know what's the price they charge. I've no experience to share on that.
I'm just shaking my head..
..sorry, It is nice to see that at least someone has the balls to give it a try....cheers to you!Buy the way foxcore, I have forgotten that there is this coven of "Premier Members" in the background talking it up. Because it is so sensitive a subject, joining them should get you more help. That will give you the option of playing with us guys in the fish bowl later if you feel like hanging around with the peons.
Lol. I'm glad to see someone approaching this topic with a bit of humor.
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@unknownuser said:
Lol. I'm glad to see someone approaching this topic with a bit of humor.
It's necessary although often misunderstood. It is pretty dry around here most of the time. I try to get hair to stand up on some people...and often it does. Although the big IGNORE has been the most popular response lately.
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Oh and once you calculate the price, don't forge to double it. It's the only way to survive!
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@roland joseph said:
@unknownuser said:
Then that should have a standard price and you're in direct competition with people that do similar stuff. You just have to find them and know what's the price they charge. I've no experience to share on that.
I'm just shaking my head..
..sorry, It is nice to see that at least someone has the balls to give it a try....cheers to you!Didn't quite follow you. Balls for what? Charging what you think your time is worth? That's exactly what I do and though 90% of my potential clients simply ignore my propositions, the other 10% are just outstanding clients with an outstanding aproach to life and architecture.
I consider myself lucky to have only those outstanding clients to work with, and to only work on things that are very interesting to me. Unfortunately I, as you may suspect, haven't got much money on the pocket, but I have a nice life a wife I love and works with me and 3 kids.
By the way, for each project that I build, more clients seem to show up... and that is something that gives me the right feeling.
Still not enough to buy a new car, but I'd be very lucky to manage to have finantial conditions for my 4th kid.
I'm really fortunate but I don't call that neither luck nor balls of steel. Only resilience and a freaking high self esteem! Some have called me stuborn over the years, prick and crazy or fool also seem good terms to describe me, some even call me an opportunistic bastard and even money greedy...
Alas I just know that when a client accepts to work with me for twice (or more) the money charged by the next guy, he won't regret it. In the end he will instead think of how cheap that was...
I'd really hate if everyone did like me as I'd probably have much less work...
I hope this helps any one that reads it!
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Watching and learning
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Shove it solo!......
JQL...you seem like a very compassionate and committed artist. I like the way you put your family first....bravo!
"Balls" just for answering the question....guys like solo, who has joined the lurk here wouldn't share a peck of his "how do I price this" info. Is it because he doesn't know how to price a job?
I'm not an artist I am a modeller. As much as I would like to be an artist I am simply not. I would suggest that someone like solo is an artist (although he rates himself as moderately good at Sketchup...(sure solo!
we know better) Solo has easily shown us over the years that he has intrinsic value. I think that is what you are talking about JQL.So for me it is easy...I work by the hour, on anything, everybody gets the same rate, I have no intrinsic value. That works for me. I am very rarely without work. Sometimes the work can be tedious but I am out of the cold and happy.
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You are correct but it is a good way to keep myself grounded. When ever I get close to thinking I am an artist I am struck down by some piece of brilliant work I find here or somewhere else in the community...and then another...and then another. It is a good reminder to me to put more effort into my work. With hard work I can emulate an artist from time to time.
Now if only someone would give us a little insight on job pricing.
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...
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I could give some insight. What you'd have me do?
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If you wish you can give advise on pricing this.
The question is what is the price per unit in this project.
I do an average of 40 to 50 retail storefronts per season. The link is a set of examples of the types of fronts that are remodeled. Basically I build the downtown area completely. The architects have a camera somewhat like the google street-view machine except higher resolution. They take the shots so there is no travel involved. I build the existing structures and map the high-rez images to them. Once they are built I render shots as you see for each location and they are sent to the architect for redesign. We simply use pdfs to do markups. There may be one or two iterations depending on how complex the renovations are. I currently have a backlog of approx. 50 units to complete.
My price is very low but that is because I have been doing this for a long time and these models are easy to knock off. If you would like to give your thoughts on a unit price please do. (anyone)
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That's actually quite pretty. So that's mostly high quality photos on top of a basic building structure?
You make it look really nice.
What did you use to make your renderings? I'm still wrapping my head around making renderings.... I've only been successful using twilight render so far.
Here are two renderings I did for personal use and to practice... any tips on what settings to use for lighting, or where to get spherical backgrounds? I'm having a bear of a time finding good tips online for the lighting settings for exterior shots.
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I have to pose some questions:
Do you deliver both the model and image?
Or only image?
Do you create an image per renovation?
Any interiors?Then I'll make a couple of blunt statements considering it's just an image:
1 - I don't do that kind of stuff.
2 - I would be able to do it and I'd actually find it interesting for the first time...
3 - As it's 50 images of the same stuff and I would get bored, I'd probably find a nice guy that would do the work for me after I'd set up the procedure.
4 - I would charge €350+VAT per image.
5 - I would give them a discount of €300+VAT if they'd pay 25 images upfront and for each image I'd produce they'd pay me the corresponding half per image.
6 - I would be willing to negotiate a bit more but no less than 250€.
7 - With the upfront money I'd buy a Titan and, with Thea, I'd render that stuff in seconds.
8 - I'd try to find the right man for the job later,
9 - If I wouldn't find him or if I'd have some shortage of work, I'd do it myself at nights.
10 - They would be very lucky if that would happen because I would only be happy if in the end I would have managed to learn something with each image, improving my render skills while I'd work on the images, so I would take the chance to explore every possible way of rendering that sort of stuff and create way better images than those.I wouldn't take up the job if it would interfere with my architectural practice or my life in any way. Because of number 1 to 3.
I find my prices very cheap. Are they?
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@unknownuser said:
mostly high quality photos
That's how it starts but if you look close you will see a lot of texturing. Often the building owners want it to look like the original heritage site so I take samples from the photos and make textures. Either with algorithmic substance tools or PS or both. If brick is painted for example I peel back the paint. I use SU "make unique texture" often as well to paint in changes to the surfaces..i.e. many buildings have murals and I need to deliver the detail so I have to paint it in. Depending on the design I have the option of building mesh and materials or simply painting images.
You can see the evolution from paint to design suggestions in this sequence.
Foxcore you have asked some questions that I am going to answer tomorrow.
JQL you have made some interesting observations and suggestions and I am going to comment on them all as well but I have to go back to work.Cheers!...tomorrow!
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