What would you charge for this?
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@roland joseph said:
@unknownuser said:
Then that should have a standard price and you're in direct competition with people that do similar stuff. You just have to find them and know what's the price they charge. I've no experience to share on that.
I'm just shaking my head..
..sorry, It is nice to see that at least someone has the balls to give it a try....cheers to you!Buy the way foxcore, I have forgotten that there is this coven of "Premier Members" in the background talking it up. Because it is so sensitive a subject, joining them should get you more help. That will give you the option of playing with us guys in the fish bowl later if you feel like hanging around with the peons.
Lol. I'm glad to see someone approaching this topic with a bit of humor.
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@unknownuser said:
Lol. I'm glad to see someone approaching this topic with a bit of humor.
It's necessary although often misunderstood. It is pretty dry around here most of the time. I try to get hair to stand up on some people...and often it does. Although the big IGNORE has been the most popular response lately.
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Oh and once you calculate the price, don't forge to double it. It's the only way to survive!
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@roland joseph said:
@unknownuser said:
Then that should have a standard price and you're in direct competition with people that do similar stuff. You just have to find them and know what's the price they charge. I've no experience to share on that.
I'm just shaking my head..
..sorry, It is nice to see that at least someone has the balls to give it a try....cheers to you!Didn't quite follow you. Balls for what? Charging what you think your time is worth? That's exactly what I do and though 90% of my potential clients simply ignore my propositions, the other 10% are just outstanding clients with an outstanding aproach to life and architecture.
I consider myself lucky to have only those outstanding clients to work with, and to only work on things that are very interesting to me. Unfortunately I, as you may suspect, haven't got much money on the pocket, but I have a nice life a wife I love and works with me and 3 kids.
By the way, for each project that I build, more clients seem to show up... and that is something that gives me the right feeling.
Still not enough to buy a new car, but I'd be very lucky to manage to have finantial conditions for my 4th kid.
I'm really fortunate but I don't call that neither luck nor balls of steel. Only resilience and a freaking high self esteem! Some have called me stuborn over the years, prick and crazy or fool also seem good terms to describe me, some even call me an opportunistic bastard and even money greedy...
Alas I just know that when a client accepts to work with me for twice (or more) the money charged by the next guy, he won't regret it. In the end he will instead think of how cheap that was...
I'd really hate if everyone did like me as I'd probably have much less work...
I hope this helps any one that reads it!
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Watching and learning
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Shove it solo!......
JQL...you seem like a very compassionate and committed artist. I like the way you put your family first....bravo!
"Balls" just for answering the question....guys like solo, who has joined the lurk here wouldn't share a peck of his "how do I price this" info. Is it because he doesn't know how to price a job?
I'm not an artist I am a modeller. As much as I would like to be an artist I am simply not. I would suggest that someone like solo is an artist (although he rates himself as moderately good at Sketchup...(sure solo!
we know better) Solo has easily shown us over the years that he has intrinsic value. I think that is what you are talking about JQL.So for me it is easy...I work by the hour, on anything, everybody gets the same rate, I have no intrinsic value. That works for me. I am very rarely without work. Sometimes the work can be tedious but I am out of the cold and happy.
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You are correct but it is a good way to keep myself grounded. When ever I get close to thinking I am an artist I am struck down by some piece of brilliant work I find here or somewhere else in the community...and then another...and then another. It is a good reminder to me to put more effort into my work. With hard work I can emulate an artist from time to time.
Now if only someone would give us a little insight on job pricing.
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...
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I could give some insight. What you'd have me do?
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If you wish you can give advise on pricing this.
The question is what is the price per unit in this project.
I do an average of 40 to 50 retail storefronts per season. The link is a set of examples of the types of fronts that are remodeled. Basically I build the downtown area completely. The architects have a camera somewhat like the google street-view machine except higher resolution. They take the shots so there is no travel involved. I build the existing structures and map the high-rez images to them. Once they are built I render shots as you see for each location and they are sent to the architect for redesign. We simply use pdfs to do markups. There may be one or two iterations depending on how complex the renovations are. I currently have a backlog of approx. 50 units to complete.
My price is very low but that is because I have been doing this for a long time and these models are easy to knock off. If you would like to give your thoughts on a unit price please do. (anyone)
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That's actually quite pretty. So that's mostly high quality photos on top of a basic building structure?
You make it look really nice.
What did you use to make your renderings? I'm still wrapping my head around making renderings.... I've only been successful using twilight render so far.
Here are two renderings I did for personal use and to practice... any tips on what settings to use for lighting, or where to get spherical backgrounds? I'm having a bear of a time finding good tips online for the lighting settings for exterior shots.
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I have to pose some questions:
Do you deliver both the model and image?
Or only image?
Do you create an image per renovation?
Any interiors?Then I'll make a couple of blunt statements considering it's just an image:
1 - I don't do that kind of stuff.
2 - I would be able to do it and I'd actually find it interesting for the first time...
3 - As it's 50 images of the same stuff and I would get bored, I'd probably find a nice guy that would do the work for me after I'd set up the procedure.
4 - I would charge €350+VAT per image.
5 - I would give them a discount of €300+VAT if they'd pay 25 images upfront and for each image I'd produce they'd pay me the corresponding half per image.
6 - I would be willing to negotiate a bit more but no less than 250€.
7 - With the upfront money I'd buy a Titan and, with Thea, I'd render that stuff in seconds.
8 - I'd try to find the right man for the job later,
9 - If I wouldn't find him or if I'd have some shortage of work, I'd do it myself at nights.
10 - They would be very lucky if that would happen because I would only be happy if in the end I would have managed to learn something with each image, improving my render skills while I'd work on the images, so I would take the chance to explore every possible way of rendering that sort of stuff and create way better images than those.I wouldn't take up the job if it would interfere with my architectural practice or my life in any way. Because of number 1 to 3.
I find my prices very cheap. Are they?
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@unknownuser said:
mostly high quality photos
That's how it starts but if you look close you will see a lot of texturing. Often the building owners want it to look like the original heritage site so I take samples from the photos and make textures. Either with algorithmic substance tools or PS or both. If brick is painted for example I peel back the paint. I use SU "make unique texture" often as well to paint in changes to the surfaces..i.e. many buildings have murals and I need to deliver the detail so I have to paint it in. Depending on the design I have the option of building mesh and materials or simply painting images.
You can see the evolution from paint to design suggestions in this sequence.
Foxcore you have asked some questions that I am going to answer tomorrow.
JQL you have made some interesting observations and suggestions and I am going to comment on them all as well but I have to go back to work.Cheers!...tomorrow!
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Foxcore you have asked some questions that I am going to answer tomorrow.
JQL you have made some interesting observations and suggestions and I am going to comment on them all as well but I have to go back to work.Cheers!...tomorrow![/quote]
Wow, that is really nice work! I see stuff like that online sometimes and just shake my head that I have no idea how to recreate it (the quality of the renderings.)
I like your process for bringing it from photos to life. I'd be very interested in learning either where to find better textures or how to make better textures. Cool info!
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Solo you are welcome to join in anytime. As JQL hinted, I think it might bore you to death.
I could actually use the help. Believe it or not I have 4 horses...Savana, Sky, Bell, and a big, old 8 year old race horse called Bee. Last week I made a mistake and fell of Savana breaking two of my ribs. I am glad I sit while I work but the pain has been a bit overwhelming at times. ......lets talk tomorrow...I got to go take an aspirin...
cheers! -
I like the work on the Hamilton house. Not sure of the facade style but the renderings work great. Probably helped them decide on the style as the later images architecture seems to come together better.
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
8 - I'd try to find the right man for the job later
I'm available
You mean, I'd work for you right? I mean if you set up the procedure I'd render 10 of them. Let's face it you could do this with your leg over your shoulder. (Well you if you can do that with the leg, I have better job offers for you actually. None of them boring!)
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For this project I use Lumion. For a few reasons.
(I'm not here to sell Lumion so please don't start with the “too expensive” diatribes).People have distain for Lumion because of it's price but they miss a very valid point. The Lumion licence never looses it's value. It is like a little investment. When you are done you basically give it back to the community and get a refund. You can resell your own licence/key if you want anytime right on the Lumion Forum.
Secondly there is no rendering overhead at all....the render times on those shots was between 4 and 6 second.....lol....and that is stretching it. Basically I am selling modeling cause the rendering is free.
Lumion loves Collada files and so does Sketchup. You can throw just about any image at it via .dae and it returns a good render. Set-up time for those buildings is also measured in seconds not minutes or hours.
Lumion is the easiest rendering front-end you can buy. It takes no experience. (although the more you have the better your Lumion images will look just like all the other rendering machines. So if you are an artist you have the freedom to create some amazing images...If you don't believe that go look at the forum postings.
Enough!!
You said you are using twilight. That's smart. Twilight is very friendly as well and so it is a good place to start your rendering career because you can get some good results with it the first day. I think that you might even be able to use Twilight for a project like mine. It will not render as fast as Lumion but it is slick to set up and relatively fast.
I see a lot of good basic qualities in your renders. You need more detailed models, better constructed and mapped materials and more entourage..lol...(but so do all of us). You are on the right track you just need more time and practice.
I am working on a tutorial in which I sample the current brick from a heritage building and turn it into a tiling image with normal map. I feel like I have made a million wood textures so I may do a wood tutorial as well. I modeled wood textures for a building materials company for 3 years, you name it (including things like “quarter sawn oak”) I made it. I'm sorry, this is a promise for now to get them completed.
@pbacot. Thanks!
The facade on Hamilton House i.e. the front veranda is the heritage design. I research the old photos and try to bring back the old surfaces depending on the owners request. The brick color is the original color as well.
I create a few shots during the first iteration and the architect picks the 1 or 2 shots he likes and we continue the iterations using his choice.
No interiors (that is another separate project)
“I would charge 350”
I think that is about 600 Canadian. You could be right.
I would have to ask you at this point to post an image that you feel is worth 600 Canadian.
That way I know if we are in the ballpark.Sometimes a quote gives away a persons ability...i.e. Solo might quote 50 bucks on a job because it is something he can do in seconds...the next guy quotes the same job at 200 dollars because it takes him 400% longer to complete the job so he feels he should get his rate.....to bad he will never see it.
“if they pay 25 images up front.”
Frankly I would feel insulted if you asked me as a customer for a retainer There is no need for it (unless you are litigating) unless you are short of money to buy food. It sets a tone of mistrust. Create an image...cut an invoive...simple. If you do a good and timely job you will get paid the same way.“create better images than those” This is the quality that the customer asked for...no more...no less.
But based on your comment I would want to see an image from your recent work that is better, just to see what better means to you. ( but be careful...if you set my expectation with an image that takes you hours to complete, I will expect that level of quality for every shot. You might be digging a rather large hole for yourself.Cheers!
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