Printing/Plotting
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I do my drawing on a iMac computer, and also have an HP 1055CM plotter. It's often useful to print plans (or parts of plans) full size, particularly if the piece of furniture has curves or funky angles joining each other. I know I have to turn off Perspective in the camera menu, and then set the scale as 1:1 in Document Setup. Recently, I plotted a coffee table on a (custom size) 36" x 60" page, and when comparing the Sketchup drawing with the plot, there was a difference of about 1 1/2 inches on a 23 inch part. I could have probably lived with a 1/16" variance, but this is way too much. Does anyone have any comments or experience with stuff like this?
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I haven't seen that kind of discrepancy when printing to scale from SketchUp. I haven't ever done anything that big directly because I haven't got a printer to handle paper that big. Normally I use LayOut to do 1:1 patterns for templates, though. I can send a PDF file off to the local Staples and have them print it. There's never been any issues with scaling then.
Are dimensions off by the same amount in both directions on the print? Do you get the same results if you print something to a standard printer on Letter size paper?
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@lockha said:
....comparing the Sketchup drawing with the plot, there was a difference of about 1 1/2 inches on a 23 inch part. I could have probably lived with a 1/16" variance, but this is way too much. Does anyone have any comments or experience with stuff like this?
Put my self in brain freeze again as usually. A error on print out ,used to make templates ?, of 1 1/2 with variance of 1/16" is OK?? I dislike use of architecture template units maybe change in order ??or print head alignment?
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To Dave- thanks, I'll check the things you mentioned. It will probably be Monday before I get back to you.
To Mac1- Seems like I didn't express myself clearly. A variance of 1/16 in 23" I can work with. A variance of 1 1/2" in 23" I can't.
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Dave-
Sorry for the delay, we had a snowstorm and our internet was out for a couple of days.
Per your request. I measured some things at right angles to each other.Using the plotter printout I found one dimension which was 22 3/4" on the plan and 21 9/16" on the paper. At right angles to that there was a piece which was 11 5/16" on the drawing and 10 3/4" on the paper.
I then went back to my little letter size printer. Drew a box 6" x 3" and it printed out at 6 5/8" x 3 5/16"
I know I must be doing something wrong, other people get this to work. I've turned off Perspective in the Camera menu, selected Top View, and gone into Document Setup to uncheck Fit to Page, and changed the scale boxes so that they both read 1" in Drawing and 1" in Model. It's almost like it doesn't believe me....
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Try printing that attached on your small printer and see what you get. Measure the various dimensions and see how they compare to the dimensions on the sheet. Make sure that scaling is not not set in the Print window for Adobe Reader or Acrobat.
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@lockha said:
Dave-
I know I must be doing something wrong, other people get this to work. I've turned off Perspective in the Camera menu, selected Top View, and gone into Document Setup to uncheck Fit to Page, and changed the scale boxes so that they both read 1" in Drawing and 1" in Model. It's almost like it doesn't believe me....
.... Would still like you try using decimal inches vs 1/16.
Have not read specs on printer is it raster or vector?:
What you are printing is the image on the screen. The display reports the native resolution to the PC and SU can use that and the dimensions of the model to convert so it can calculate what it needs to command to the printer. The motors in the print head are stepper so their position accuracy should be very good unless some thing has failed. Before spending a lots of time sorting this out and assuming you have some maintenance software I would check what print heads are doing, but since you have same error in the two dimensions its probably not that but it should be a quick check. -
To Mac1: First, I don't know whether the plotter is vector or raster, and I really don't know how I would find that out.
Second, to your comment about using decimal inches: I use references to fractional inches when on posts like these, but when I'm in Document Setup I'll use 1 or 1.0 in the scale box.To Dave: I tried the print test you sent me on both my small printer and the big plotter. They both worked fine- as accurate as my old eyes can measure with the ruler on my desk. This says to me that I'm screwing something up in the way I set up the plot (which I always suspected). So one more time, Here's the sequence I go through- Page Setup- Format for: the plotter and Select Page Size: in this case Manage Custom Sizes- the metric equivalent of 36" wide x 60" long. Choose Portrait or Landscape, usually Landscape. Document Setup- Zoom in or out in drawing so that Print Scale is as close to 1:1 as possible. This occasionally requires the actual screen size to be altered by using the arrows on the bottom right corner of the window. Uncheck Fit to Page, and change Print Scale to 1:1. Sometimes that's a change in the Drawing box, sometimes it's a change in the Model box. Print box- check the settings, see if the preview box looks reasonable, and hit Print.
Can either of you see any flaws in this?
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Did you go through the process I outlined in the link I sent to you? Exactly?
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The doc set up doesn't have any thing to do with may suggestion. I have had in the past the Architecture fractional form reading different value than my design. What interest me is the two measurement you sited one is off by + 7/16 and other -7/16. The Su native is inches and I do not know how it does rounding and thought you may want to just eliminate one variable from the question.
The best I can tell the printer is a vector printer ( post script). Dave can weigh in on this, I do dot use large format printing, but think that means in your set up you should be selecting high accuracy HLR.Copied from Su write up:
"The Use High Accuracy HLR option is used to send the model information to the printer as vector information." and
" Note: It is not possible to print a perspective image to scale. Ensure perspective is disabled and you are using one of the Standard Views in the Camera > Standard submenu, to enable the scale option.".
Note: Even though para-line projection is used to get an output that is to scale, not all angles will be measurable to a scale. This issue is the result of SketchUp using foreshortening, or a technique of shortening lines to create a 3D effect on a 2D medium such as paper."The other question in my mind is the Su set-up sufficient for what is required by the printer. IE your manual has steps for its set up. Have you followed all those?
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Dave- OK now I'm confused. You asked nDid you go through the process I outlined in the link I sent to you? Exactly?
I got a Print test which consisted of a drawing, but there was no other link containing any instructions that I could find. Did I miss something?
Mac1- I don't have a manual for the plotter. I know that others have said they couldn't find one, but I'll poke around on the HP website and see what's there.
You refer to High Accuracy HLR. I've never seen that in SU. Where can I find out more? -
It is one their web site, pdf 200 +pages. I'll see if I saved it but don't think so but here is the link http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/bpp02496.pdf
HGH accuracy HLR is lower right corner of the set up dialog, very last item. Here is SU link for that dialog http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/114459I would like to again suggest you change the units used in you model. To try and convince you just use a spread sheet and take the different of the two numbers ( 22 3/4 and 21 9/16 in fractional form you posted and see what you get}/ My open office returns 1 1/5 when the correct value is 1 3/16. My contention is that form is inherently inaccurate and should not be used for accuracy analysis. One of the issues is SU is 32 bits float and means only 24 bits precision once allowance is made for sign and exponent bits.
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To Mac1- I did find the manual online, but didn't see anything in it that would help us. I'm starting to understand where you're coming from in the decimal/fractional conversation- clearly there is a difference between 1.2 and 1 3/16, but that's not the inaccuracy i have a problem with. The issue is that something on a printed drawing measures 22 3/4 when it should measure 21 9/16 (or 22.75 vs 21.5625)
As to the HGH accuracy, you refer to a setup box- I've looked at Page Setup, Document Setup, SU Preferences, and Model Info, and don't see such a box. Could that be something in Pro that isn't in Make? -
@lockha said:
To Mac1- I did find the manual online, but didn't see anything in it that would help us.
< Section 11 , if my memory is correct, shows calibration and other sections show paper aligment>
I'm starting to understand where you're coming from in the decimal/fractional conversation- clearly there is a difference between 1.2 and 1 3/16, but that's not the inaccuracy i have a problem with. The issue is that something on a printed drawing measures 22 3/4 when it should measure 21 9/16 (or 22.75 vs 21.5625)
< I did not expect that would be closed form answer to you problem. I usually try to eliminate as many unknows as possible if it is easy to do. Su native dimension is inches so it needs to convert. It knows your monitor parameters via EDID( Extended display identification data) so knows its native resolution to allow calculation of pixel extent of line and same for printer DPI>
As to the HGH accuracy, you refer to a setup box- I've looked at Page Setup, Document Setup, SU Preferences, and Model Info, and don't see such a box. Could that be something in Pro that isn't in Make?
< It is part of the print preview set up dialog, did you read link I posted. Why are you looking at those other places???. It shows in my SU 2014 make, if not in yours I would have no info on that. Post screen shot of you print preview dialog setup. The printer manual implies it is post script but then also sites RIP ( Raster image processor ) ships with it>
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Added info:
The fractional conversion precision you have set in SU will affect what SU shows in say the entity info dialog. Take your 21 9/16, enter as decimal 21.5625 and set precision at 1/16, entity info reports 21 9/16, but set to say 1/2 and it will report with a different number with tilda showing only approximation. That precision basically controls the size of the denominator so you no not get cases where you have ie 100 /500 which would be use less to user. ( reason you can only set up to 1/64) If you see a case with the tilda you want to increase precision. For what you are trying to do I would never use that format
I am more convinced part of the issue maybe you are violating the interface to the printer, the manual gives specs . BTW the maintenance manual is on thier site. I would have both near by! The print heads are basically same as in many small format printers. It converts the post script to raster via the included RPI I mention above and prints as raster so you need to make sure you have the correct inter face. When you feed it raster and the printer expects vector ?? Note there are also windows and auto CAD drivers what are you using?
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