Is Bitcoin money?

olishea

So how do you get money in then got money out?

I've been looking at bitcoin for a while, I really don't trust the banks and why should I. I was just worried bitcoin would eventually disappear but it's getting more and more popular.

Mike Lucey

If you mean, how do you deal in BCs then want to get £s Ss €s out, I don't think that is the best way to use it. From what I see, one is better off trading with other BS users and building up credit and using this credit to buy stuff / servcices.

I'll know more after Saturday ..... if the info doesn't fly completely over my head

olishea

Cheers Mike, I want to use it as a savings account more than anything, but would be nice to be able to withdraw actual money from time to time.

[ANN] Withdraw your bitcoins to ANY credit/debit card in the world!

(bitcointalk.org)

tomasz

@olishea said:

Cheers Mike, I want to use it as a savings account more than anything, but would be nice to be able to withdraw actual money from time to time.

@unknownuser said:

The price of a bitcoin can unpredictably increase or decrease over a short period of time due to its young economy, novel nature, and sometimes illiquid markets. Consequently, keeping your savings in bitcoin is not recommended. Bitcoin should be considered as a high risk asset, and you should never store money that you cannot afford to lose with Bitcoin. If you receive payments with Bitcoin, many service providers allow you to convert them instantly to your local currency.

olishea

Thanks tomasz. Well there goes that idea, looks like gold is the only 'safe' investment. Gold price dropped quite a lot recently, good time to buy.

Mike Lucey

@olishea said:

Thanks tomasz. Well there goes that idea, looks like gold is the only 'safe' investment. Gold price dropped quite a lot recently, good time to buy.

Don't know about that either. I am loosing confidence in paper gold. I'd like to be able to hold it in my hand, just occasional not like what appears to be happening between the German Government and the FED! Still having gold around the house would lead to security issues.

Try and buy a bit of land on the drip! They aren't making it any more

Starling75

What is money?
Why does money have value?

Interesting questions..

Sacred Economics: Chapter 3, "Money and the Mind" - Sacred Economics | Charles Eisenstein

The following chapter is from Sacred Economics: Money, Gift, and Society in the Age of Transition, available from EVOLVER EDITIONS/North Atlantic Books. Return to the Sacred Economics content page here. When all are isolated by egoism, there is nothing but dust, and at

Sacred Economics | Charles Eisenstein (sacred-economics.com)

tomasz

@tomot said:

Which raises the question where is the Gold? ...is paper backed by nothing, nothing more than the ultimate Ponzi scheme?....do you care?.

Why the whole banking system is a scam - Godfrey Bloom - YouTube
A speech in European Parliament summarizes the whole scheme very well.

[flash=640,360:15k7rkup]http://www.youtube.com/v/hYzX3YZoMrs[/flash:15k7rkup]

tomot

There is no question we live in for interesting times, but then what times have never been interesting. ......I'm starting to sound like Groucho Marx

World Bank Insider Blows Whistle on Corruption, Federal Reserve
http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/15473-world-bank-insider-blows-whistle-on-corruption-federal-reserve

Greg Smith resigns as executive director of Goldman's European equity derivatives business
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/mar/14/goldman-sachs-director-quits-morally-bankrupt

Mike Lucey

Look where BitCoin has gone

BC Graph.png

olishea

Did you read the story of the man who lost millions of his bitcoins?

Man accidentally throws away £4m Bitcoin fortune

A computer hard drive holding a Bitcoin virtual fortune of £4m has been buried under tons of rubbish after its owner accidentally threw it away.

Metro (metro.co.uk)

He only bought around £100 when they first came out, turns out they became worth over £4,000,000!!

He threw away his computer containing the bitcoin wallet!! Oh dear!

Mike Lucey

...... and what is the lesson to be learned here? Maybe, make a physical copy of important non retrievable passwords / keys and store them in an ultra save place!

pbacot

Not having something physical, a note whatever, still feels shaky. Philosophy is fun but in the end, I bet (a bitcoin) that this currency like any other will maintain value by being rated with the dollar (or Euro) etc.-- i.e. still has no intrinsic value and requires general trust, however unfounded.

olishea

Well isn't the money we use already invisible? Doesn't our own currency actually have no intrinsic value? It's just a piece of paper when you think about it.

Long gone are the days of trading in gold and silver which hold a palpable value.

We get paid by electronic bank transfer, transfer from one account to the other electronically, pay bills electronically, pay for good electronically. We are fast becoming a cashless society and this is the direction most countries want to take, for various reasons. Rarely do we ever actually come into contact with our money, it's just a number on the screen. Of course you can withdraw cash but people are tending towards a cashless lifestyle. It's worrying after many banks being hacked, we could end up with nothing.

I just see bitcoin as another currency. Your money will not vanish any more than it would in a traditional bank, remember when the recession kicked off and people lost their whole life savings? You can still translate bitcoin into cash if you so wish and many shops have begun accepting bitcoin as a payment method. It's here to stay and many other companies have introduced their own "bitcoin". There is now even a bitcoin ATM, the only difference being you look after your own money instead of a bank.

pbacot

Agreed Oli but that is all sort of semantics. Money is debt and my money and (mostly) debt are pretty close actually. It's just the savings, "stock" that is getting intangible I guess--although that's supposed to represent a share in something "real". The rest is IN (hours of services rendered) and OUT (food and shoes) and mortgage which relates to tangible debt or equity, my house--PDQ I might add.

So what will Bitcoin get that dollars can't besides perhaps more volatility. What regulates bitcoin. The dollar is regulated by the Fed and consensus (a LOT of important people don't want it fail) and banks are regulated by law--- but wait, they seem to be run by crooks...

Mike Lucey

I read that most fiat currency systems have only run for 27 years on average. I understand the current US system has been in place for 40+ years! I wonder if the system is coming to the end of its days in its current form?

The FED printing an extra $85 billion per month and putting it into the system only seems to be increasing stock prices. To make matters worse, there are many saying that in order to keep the merry-go-round in action this $85B per month will have to increase $120 - $150B per month next year as China, Japan and others change their mind about US T Bonds! Things look to be going the same way over here in the EU although 'Bail Ins' rather than Bail Outs will be on the card when the banks again run into difficulties. Greece was the test case in seems

It also looks like Brazil, Russia, India, China and S. Africa are getting serious about an alternative reserve currency, the 'bric' ...... yeah I know a bit of an unfortunate name. Sink like a brick!

As the words of the song goes, 'Money makes the World go around'. Maybe we are looking at the progression of a new World Currency of some sort? But again, one shoe never fits all, as has been proven to be the case in the EU with the PIGS situation.

It would appear that China is hoarding all the gold it can lay its hands on, the same for Russia and India. I wonder if we might be looking at the development of an alternative to the Petro Dollar, one that will be backed by gold or maybe even something like e-gold, a mixture of crypto currency and gold backing.

I don't think it will be too long before we know what the 'New World Order' Masters have in mind for us One thing is for sure, I wont be selling the silverware and gold jewelery quite yet

Mike

Daniel

@tomot said:

The interesting thing about Bitcoin is that it’s made everybody start to talk about what money is, and why money has any value. If you think about it, since 1971, when the US came off the gold standard, the dollar hasn’t been linked to gold, it hasn’t been linked to anything. You have a piece of paper which says ‘In God we trust’, it does not say 'In Government we trust'. That piece of paper is absolutely meaningless. You’re putting your trust into banks and central authorities. The Federal Reserve which prints the dollar has nothing to do with anything Federal. Its simply a private banking corporation, which has the authority to print the dollar for the Federal Government. The Fed is also very busy these days printing more paper.

Bitcoin is a whole new idea about what money is, money is basically regulated by network and by the people.

Recently Central banks around the world are looking at the development of Bitcoin with a lot of fear, and not just central banks, but the traditional banking system as a whole. Bitcoin has been around since 2008. Regulators didn’t pay any attention to it, they dismissed it as some sort of monopoly money. But things are changing for Bitcoin.

Funny thing is, the dollar you use daily, no longer supported by gold, is also monopoly money, ... is it not?

Speaking of Gold; Germany recently wanted to repatriate their gold stored in US vaults
http://nsnbc.me/2013/04/18/federal-reserve-refuses-to-submit-to-an-audit-of-germanys-gold-held-in-u-s-vaults-2/

Which raises the question where is the Gold? ...is paper backed by nothing, nothing more than the ultimate Ponzi scheme?....do you care?.

I would hardly call U.S. money absolutely meaningless. If you truly feel that way, you're more than welcome mail me all your money, and I'll take care of that meaningless paper for you.

Contrary to popular belief, the Federal Reserve does not print money. U.S. currency is printed and minted by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) under the Department of the Treasury.
"In God We Trust" is just a logo. Paper money also has the words "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE" and is signed by both the Treasurer of the United States and the Secretary of the Treasury. The value of U.S. currency is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.
Your assertion that the Federal Reserve is a private banking corporation or that it has nothing to do with anything Federal is wrong. The Federal Reserve System (aka the Federal Reserve, the Fed), the central banking system of the U.S., derives it's authority through The Federal Reserve Act of 1923 and subsequent congressional statutes, and is subject to congressional oversight. The U.S. Congress established three key objectives for monetary policy in the Federal Reserve Act: Maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates. Its duties have expanded over the years, and today, according to official Federal Reserve documentation, include conducting the nation's monetary policy, supervising and regulating banking institutions, maintaining the stability of the financial system and providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions.