Hardware advice

Stinkie

Q: how would this

http://www.forcom.be/computer/desktops/desktops/acer-predator-g7-760-crusher.html

compare to this

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/specs/mac-pro-eight-core-3.0-2008-specs.html

?

My ageing Mac Pro might be up for replacement, and I'm wondering whether the pc that's on the page I linked to outperforms it in terms of rendering speed. I'm guessing it does, but I don't knwo much about hardware.

Er, let's not get caught up in yet another Mac vs pc debate, shall we? Getting a new Mac is not an option, due to financial constraints.

stefanq

How about an upgrade for memory and the video card?
The way I see things, from the specifications:
PC: 4 cores 8 threads ( that means 8 buckets when rendering, but half of the cpu clock), also known as hyper-threading, better for multitasking. That means, in rendering power,
4 cores at 3,4GHz or 8*1,7GHz resulting 13,6 GHz.
Mac: 8 cores at 3 GHz, resulting 24 GHz.
From my point of view, Mac is superior, but lacks at RAM and video.
So, how about an upgrade?

Stinkie

Decent points. I'd have to look into that.

numerobis

@stefanq said:

The way I see things, from the specifications:
PC: 4 cores 8 threads ( that means 8 buckets when rendering, but half of the cpu clock), also known as hyper-threading, better for multitasking. That means, in rendering power,
4 cores at 3,4GHz or 8*1,7GHz resulting 13,6 GHz.
Mac: 8 cores at 3 GHz, resulting 24 GHz.

sometimes it's better to say nothing instead of spreading wrong "knowledge"...

Yes, the i7 2600K (Sandy Bridge) quad core means 8 virtual threads ("hyperthreaded"), but why should they run at only 1,7GHz?!? The 2600K has 3,4GHz on all cores and an adaptive turbo mode that raises one core to 3,8GHz, with 2 cores to 3,7GHz, and 3 to 3,6GHz.
"Hyperthreading" doesn't mean 8 full cores but something around 20-40% faster than 4 cores without HT, depending on the software. (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/39555-intel-sandy-bridge-core-i5-2500k-core-i7-2600k-processors-review-6.html )

The "8-core" Mac is a dual processor system with two Harpertown (E5472) quad cores without hyperthreading running at 3,0GHz. So the mac has 8 full cores but in fact the processor is three generations older than Sandy Bridge which has a much better performance and is clocked higher. So if you compare the performance of these two machines the Sandy Bridge will be faster! (you can compare the Maxwell Render scores here: http://www.maxwellrender.com/index.php/benchwell ) and has a better single core performance (sketchup).

You're right, it's a very old system - but the problem is not only the video card and RAM...

Concerning the 2600K offer: this is highly overpriced and looks more like a bad joke. And using 3x4GB RAM for a 2600K is bullshit because it needs dual channel which means 2 or 4 RAM sticks! Unless you need this "stylish" case you can get a system with these specs for less than half of this money... and maybe from a vendor who knows what he is doing!

For this amount of money you should better get an i7 3930K hexacore (3,2GHz) with 16 or better 32GB RAM - best bang for the buck atm. in this performance class. (maybe ~1400€)

.

solo

CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K Six-Core (12 thread) 3.20 GHz 12MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011

HDD: 2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD

MEMORY: 16GB (4GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory

MOTHERBOARD: (3-Way SLI Support) ASUS P9X79 LE Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX w/ UEFI Bios, Remote GO!, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB3.0, SATA-III RAID, 3 Gen3 PCIe X16, 2 PCIe X1 & 1 PCI (All Venom OC Certified)

VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card

Complete with case, water cooling, 800w PSU,factory 20% overclocking, windows 7pro 64.

$1400.00

Stinkie

Thanks for the info, gentlemen.

Stinkie

Pete, what brand are your RAM and HDD, and could you give me some more info on your case, cooling, and PSU? I'd like to find out what your setup costs around these parts.

Oh, your motherboard, is it the 'plain' one, or the Pro or the Deluxe?

Stinkie

How does this look?

ALTERNATE.pdf

numerobis

@unknownuser said:

How does this look?

this looks quite pricey... is hardware that expensive in Belgium?!?

You really should compare prices. Maybe at http://www.vergelijk.be/
(i don't know if there is a better one for Belgium)

And concerning the components:

3930K is good... but you need a cooler for it. (maybe a Thermalright HR-02 Macho or a Corsair H80/H100)
I think the board is ok (I have a P9X79 WS)
GTX 670 should be good... if you need it. (i would say it's overpriced...)
Antec 1200W PSU ...?!? WHY 1200W? Do you plan for quad SLI? A good 700-750W should be enough even if you want to overclock. Maybe a Seasonic X-Series 750W (i have one here )
2,5" 750GB HDD ...because it is more quiet? Or why did you choose a 2,5" HDD? I really would go for a SSD as system drive. The Samsung 830 are very good and cheap atm. because they will be replaced by the 840 next month. But i would take at least the 256GB version (~150€) because it has a higher sequential write speed than the 128GB model.
16GB Corsair CL8... I think the low latency will give you close to nothing. I would go for 4x8GB Corsair DDR3-1600 CL10 instead

Stinkie

@numerobis said:

this looks quite pricey... are the hardware prices in Belgium that high?!?

Yes. Twenty-one percent VAT.

Thanks alot for the pointers, as I know b*gger all about these things. Pretty much all I know is don't want to spend more than €2500, and preferably less.

How's these?

pc_2.pdf

pc_3.pdf

numerobis

@unknownuser said:

Yes. Twenty-one percent VAT.

we have 19% here in germany so this can't be the difference...

I think this looks better now.

Here are some reviews of the cooler
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviewdb/Cooling/Air/Thermalright/
(Rev.A supports socket 2011)

I can't say much about Coolermaster PSUs or the case, I don't know who is building the PSU for them http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/psu-manufacturer-oem,2729-5.html. But i think it should be ok.

Regarding the graphics card the second config would be much better i think. The GTX 650 is even slower than a GTX 560. http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/nvidia_geforce_gtx_650_gt_640_evga_test/index40.php
So i would say either the GTX 660 or 660 TI, or an "old" GTX 560, 560 TI (2GB), 570 TI (2,5GB) - depending on the price. And watch out for noisy coolers - i don't know the evga.

Kingston RAM is good, but i can't say how it is running on this board. But normally they should be compatible.

I don't know where you are storing your data. Maybe you would need an additional HDD of 1-2TB for it.
I have only two samsung 830 in my machine and no HDD, one with 256GB and one with 512GB. The system is fully watercooled and quiet so i didn't want to have any HDDs installed. I use a file server to store the data and the SSDs for System and temporary project files (one 100GB partition for Win7 and the rest for data).

I don't know if you can buy OEM (system builder) software in Belgium, but a OEM Win 7 x64 Pro would be much cheaper (~120€). You don't need the retail package. What you get is only useless microsoft support. And the Pro version is normally enough. Ultimate adds only (useless) stuff like Bitlocker or EFS.

andybot

in terms of comparing CPU performance - here is a page with performance benchmarks:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

This is very useful as it lists the raw horsepower without having to think through any multithreading conversions, etc. The higher on the list, the faster the processing. There's also a useful speed/price ratio column.

Stinkie

Cool. Thanks, Andy.

I think I'm done. Numerobis: muchos gracias.

pc_4.pdf

Stinkie

@numerobis said:

You don't need the retail package.

That is great info. Much obliged.

Thanks for helping out. I might quite possibly go with the second configuration ('pc_3'). It looks fairly decent, and I like the price.

As for storing data, I like to use external HD's.

Edit: it turns out I can indeed order an OEM version of Windows.

numerobis

I would say this looks like a nice system...

and if you plan to overclock it... 4,2-4,3GHz should be possible with this cooler - for higher clocks at a reasonable noise level you would need water.

...one more point:
it seems that the difference in noise level isn't that big for the better GTX 660 cards.
But there are some who are more quiet, like one from Asus or Gigabyte

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/evga_geforce_gtx_660_sc_review,9.html

.

Stinkie

That's good to know, though I've always bluntly assumed overclocking shortens your CPU's lifespan. If I'm wrong ... good news for me.

solo

Tom depending on where you buy your rig (unless you are doing your own build) you can get them to do the overclock for you, that way you get a warranty.

Stinkie

Yeah, I figured as much. Did you overclock your system?

solo

@unknownuser said:

Yeah, I figured as much. Did you overclock your system?

Nope, did not wanna mess with something that works fine.

Stinkie

Yeah ... I'm sure Numerobis is right, but I'm not overly comfortable with messing with my hardware either. However, the idea does have a certain lure. It might prove prudent, I think, if I consulted with the company I'm ordering my new machine from.

Anyway, thanks for your help, everyone. Especially you, Numerobis.