Components created but don't show in Component Browser

Torontoww · 23 Apr 2012, 18:26

Thanks so much. I am starting from scratch again and carefully creating components and naming them, but now another issue popped up and I have spent another couple of hours playing and cannot figure it out.

I made a cabinet bottom (a rectangle 3/4" thick), made it a component. Then made a cabinet side (another rectange 3/4" thick) and drew it right beside the cabinet bottom and sticking to it, I chose that cabinet side by clicking on it 3 times and made it a component. I then copied it using the move icon and holding CTRL and moved it over to the other side of the cabinet and stuck it to the other side.

Now, I've played with this program for 60 hours now, gone through all the tutorials and now something as basic as trying to pull up the top of the cabinet sides is not working all of a sudden. When I click 3 times I get the left cabinet side being selected but not the right. Then I click a 4th time on the left cabinet side top and it has all those dots in it and I can push/pull it up, but not the right. Now if I before I push pull it up but have the left top selected (ie with dots all over the top) I can then click CTRL and the left mouse and go over to the right cabinet top and it will have dots on it and then both go up. But, I thought the whole idea was that anything you do to one happens to the other?

So, I did a test and created a box, made it a component, copied it so it was not connected to the other box and tried push/pull on it and they did both go up even though I did not select both. Is there something about creating an object that is a component that connects 2 of the same components that make it not go up at the same time?

I have loaded 3 pics. The first shows the cabinet base and side created and the component window showing both are there. The second is clicking the left cabinet side component and the 3rd is clicking a fourth time on the top of the left cabinet side. You can see that the right top is not selected and I don't know why.

I hope someone can help because if I can't even get these basics down then even though I've invested a week of time on this then I might as well go back to pen and paper.

ArCAD-UK · 23 Apr 2012, 18:46

The LH cabinet side should be a component. Once you have created it then you can copy to the RH. Having done that when you edit one you will edit both. From your image it looks like you copied the left side "group" so your component contains both sides! It's easy once you get the hang of it.

Torontoww · 23 Apr 2012, 19:05

Thanks, hmmm, I am now reviewing all of the component and copying tutorials again.

But, I did not make the LH side a group so how could it be a group? I made it a component, then clicked on it, saw the dashed box all around it, clicked the left mouse key and the CTRL key and moved/copied it over to the right.

Gaieus · 23 Apr 2012, 19:21

Noel,please, attach any problematic skp files. It is really hard to tell (from here) if you are dealing with nested components or just two sets of raw geometry - but that big bounding box shows that both sides are inside the same entity instead of being separate entities.

Torontoww · 23 Apr 2012, 19:39

Sorry didn't know I could do that. Here it is. I made the Kitchen BC Side a component clicked on it so that it had a dashed box all around it, copied it over to the right. Shows up as a component but only one side moves up. Am I copying it the wrong way somehow?

Standard 24w x 24d x 30h base cabinet.skp

Gaieus · 23 Apr 2012, 19:49

Just what I suspected above. Your sides were residing as raw geometry inside a single component. Have a look now and see how I deleted one side, closed the component and copied that (not the inside geometry) to its place (now you can select them separately).

I also flipped the right one so when you are working on them (and say give a different finish to the inside and outside), they will be handled symmetrically.

Standard 24w x 24d x 30h base cabinet.skp

Torontoww · 23 Apr 2012, 20:27

Thanks for taking a look at it but I loaded what you posted and it acted like it did before, so I closed all my sketchup programs and now it works like you say. So, there must be something wrong with my computer. I noticed it gave me a message about the fact the 'GL properties' were reset when I reloaded Sketchup and that happens quite often. In fact I can't seem to load a default template that I set the way I want it. I always seem to have to start from scratch.

So, how do I do what you did (other than the flipping)? What did I do wrong in how I copy a component. I notice I can either 1) click on it a few times so all lines are blue and then move/copy it or 2) click on it a few times so it is blue and there is also a dashed box around it and then move/copy it.

Gaieus · 23 Apr 2012, 21:28

A component (or a group) is "normal" geometry (faces and edges) inside a sort of "wrapper". You can manipulate component from "outside" and you can edit them to enter their context and manipulate the geometry "inside".

Now if you want to copy a component, you do not edit it but select it with a single click and use the Ctrl + tool to copay an instance somewhere else.

Instead, you double clicked (to edit) and on the third click, it already selects all the included, raw geometry inside. Then copied that away. This way, you still had one component but the geometry duplicated inside.

Try this: make a cube (any box).

1 click on a face selects that face only.
2 clicks on a face selects the face and bounding edges.
3 clicks on a face selects all connected geometry (i.e. connected with edges or endpoints)

Now make a group or component of the box (select all first) then

1 click only selects the component (there's a blue bounding box)
2 clicks enters the component's editing context.
3 clicks (if you click enough) will enter the editing context AND select all connected geometry.
if you do not click the 3rd click quick enough, you need to (or can) select the geometry inside just like above with the box.

Torontoww · 23 Apr 2012, 22:49

Well thanks so much for that. I owe you big time. That makes it a LOT clearer. So it looks like I was making a copy of the underlying internal geometry, not the actual component itself, and so only the internal geometry was duplicated and not the component itself which is why the geometry copy did not behave the same as the component when I manipulated the component. I did not know about any of this. That is indeed a subtle difference which one might not easily realize.

Not one of the tutorial videos I looked at explained this subtle difference or somehow I must have missed it.

Thanks so much!

Gaieus · 23 Apr 2012, 23:42

@torontoww said:

I was making a copy of the underlying internal geometry, not the actual component itself, and so only the internal geometry was duplicated and not the component itself...

Exactly.

@torontoww said:

...which is why the geometry copy did not behave the same as the component when I manipulated the component.

Well, not exactly since both sides were partsof the same component. Parts, not copies. So you were correctly modifying the component but only one part of it.

@unknownuser said:

Not one of the tutorial videos I looked at explained this subtle difference or somehow I must have missed it.

Well, it is definitely not a subtle difference so I guess you just overlooked something but next time you watch, you will know what to look for. And in fact, you can make components of components nesting them etc. so this is just scratching the surface.

Is it clear why I flipped the resulting component in my model? (If not, paint one side of that wood).

Torontoww · 24 Apr 2012, 00:32

Yes it is very clear why you flipped it. So that when I paint one side wood the inside of the other side is painted wood instead of the outside.

What I mean by subtle difference (but who knows maybe I just don't get it), is that it 'appears' that you are copying the component because it is exactly the same size and looks like a copy, but it actually isn't really a copy of the component just the geometry. And no it is not subtle in how it affects your drawings. Cutlist alerted me to this because I would only get a partial list of the components that were in my drawing not all of them and I could not figure out why. It was because what I was looking at were not all components. Some were just geometry.

I was wondering how you figured out that I only had geometry and not a component. Is there something you can click to find out?

Gaieus · 24 Apr 2012, 10:57

@torontoww said:

I was wondering how you figured out that I only had geometry and not a component. Is there something you can click to find out?

In this post , the 2nd and last screenshots revealed it. When you edit a component, it has a dotted "editing box" (which practically wraps all the content of the component around) and although you only selected the lest side geometry, the unselected right side geometry is also inside. Read what I wrote as an answer there.

Torontoww · 24 Apr 2012, 14:28

In the skp file I first posted here when I looked at the component browser I saw 'Kitchen BC Side' (showing two sides in it) so I figured it was a component or why would it show up there. I thought only components showed up there, so I have some questions if you don't mind with regard to this original file I posted:

It's not only components that show up in the component browser? Geometries show up in there too?
When I right click on the left panel in that drawing and then click 'Entity Info' it says it's a solid component and the name 'Kitchen BC Side' so this also led me to believe it was a component and that the bounding box being around both of the sides was just notifying me there were 2 of them. Why does it say it is a component when it is not?
I never made 'Kitchen BC Side' a group so was it just a group of geometries not an actual Sketchup group?
I am trying to create the same exact drawing you did with mine without redrawing the sids(excluding those components you have that have 'light' in their description - I don't even understand what they are), but nothing seems to work. I tried deleting the 'Kitchen BC Side' in the component browser by right clicking it and it let me, but then the two side disappeared. I then undid it and triple clicked the left side and made it a component but couldn't name it the same name as there was one there already, so I called it Component #1. But then I tried to delete 'Kitchen BC Side' in the component browser like I did before and it gave me a message 'Cannot create a recursively defined model or component'. I googled for 1/2 hour trying to figure out what that meant with no luck. Then I deleted the two sides in the drawing separately by clicking on each 3 times then deleting. Then I inserted Component#1 and tried to delete 'Kitchen BC Side' in the component browser again, but got the same message. How in the world did you do it?
Are there any tutorials on here that deal specifically with components and groups, what appears in the component browser and why and the bounding boxes. I've looked at so many but I still don't see much about the problems I am having. I hate to take up so much of your time as you've been so kind.

Torontoww · 24 Apr 2012, 14:54

I think I figured out the answer to Q.4. I clicked on the left side and a blue box connected the left and right sides and bottom (not sure what that meant though), then I right clicked the left side panel and clicked Explode which turned whatever I had there (which seemed to be some form of component that I don't understand) from whatever it was to simple geometry, then I clicked on the right side panel 3 times which made it light up in blue lines and then I right clicked and clicked erase, then I was able to delete Kitchen BC Side in the component browser by right clicking on hit then clicking delete, then I clicked 3 times quickly on the left side panel and right clicked and clicked Make Component and named it Kitchen BC Side. Now I have 2 components in the browser but the Kitchen BC Side one only has 1 drawing in it of a side instead of 2. Is that one of the clues to knowning that the component in the browser is really a component and not what I had before (a 'component' named Kitchen BC Side that had 2 drawings of sides in it)?

Gaieus · 25 Apr 2012, 09:55

Sorry Noel but I am getting lost. I think you are overcomplicating the whole thing. What I know is that "Cannot create a recursively defined model or component" message generally appears when you try to insert component into itself. Try this in a new file:

make a box, select all and make it a component.
now edit the component (double click) and try to insert another instance of it from the component browser.
It is obvious that once you delete a component from the component browser, all instances will also be deleted from the model. You ought to have got a message about this.

Torontoww · 25 Apr 2012, 14:17

Sorry to bother you. Was just hoping to get answers to my specific questions, that's all. Things happen and I don't know why. I am not over-complicating just asking for answers to things that happen when I use Sketchup.

Gaieus · 25 Apr 2012, 14:37

It's not about bothering - I just did not understand some of the issues you raised.

Torontoww · 25 Apr 2012, 15:08

Ok, if you will indulge me then, lets go one by one. I thought this was a pretty simple question but maybe I am not asking it in the right way since you are confused by my question:

"1. It's not only components that show up in the component browser? Geometries show up in there too?"

If you click on Window|Components in that file I sent you, you will see a 'component'chen there called 'BC Kitchen Side". That appeared not to be an actual component as you informed me when you examined my file, yet it showed up in the browser. Hence, the above question.

Gaieus · 25 Apr 2012, 19:33

Components are sort of "wrappers" for geometry (or other entities like image). So mostly you get all this geometry showing up in a component. But other than what is (in a) component, should not show up in your component browser. I am pretty sure about this.

Torontoww · 25 Apr 2012, 20:03

If you could, could you check that file I posted because the geometry does show up there