Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED
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@solo said:
@juanv.soler said:
but it is not to believe if eternity exists or not
it is a fact for the universe
The universe will last for eternity? I'm struggling to understand you Juan.
I am sorry for the delay solo. I have had my laptop broken for a few days.
What I try to say is that the universe exists by itself
and we do not, we get in here for a time and we go.
In that sense the universe seems eternal for us.
And what I think about why we hardly try to find its creator its because I think we would like to last at least the same time that the universe.But in any case, so far, so good. We are alive now and that is what matters.
Cheers -
@Boofredlay:
Not having had the opportunity to read "Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe", I did not grasp that subtlety. I just dismissed it as possibly Verse 42 of the preceding biblical citations, and did not have a chance to look any further. -
[flash=853,505:1l9djrev]http://www.youtube.com/v/aboZctrHfK8&fs=1[/flash:1l9djrev]
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"How many roads must a man walk down?"
@unknownuser said:
Not having had the opportunity to read "Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe"
It's never too late.
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The Word of God is clear. See for example Job 12:7-10 (in the Bible)!
(New International Version):
“But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you. Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this? In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.”(Amplified Bible):
“For ask now the animals, and they will teach you [that God does not deal with His creatures according to their character]; ask the birds of the air, and they will tell you; Or speak to the earth [with its other forms of life], and it will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare [this truth] to you. Who [is so blind as] not to recognize in all these [that good and evil are promiscuously scattered throughout nature and human life] that it is God's hand which does it [and God's way]? In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.”Draw your own conclusion!
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The Bible was written by men, but they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and some parts are even directly dictated by divinity...!
Jesus told His contemporaries: “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” , and He was right…: Any prophecy of Scripture that was already fulfilled, it turned like, to the smallest details! God, does not lie!
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
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Check out this video from 1992. What has changed in the meantime?
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I'm not really sure what your video has to do with the subject of this thread but it did lead me to this rather interesting Christian viewpoint.
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I saw that before, appalling yes but I also read that she did that as a "joke" mocking Christians.
That is certainly not the view of this Christian I assure you.
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What I've noticed on this thread:
Some people act like having the obligation to declare their faith. That's too bad... tooooo bad. Sorry.
Please, make sure that your religion is a matter between you and God only. -
@solo said:
@box said:
I'm not really sure what your video has to do with the subject of this thread but it did lead me to this rather interesting Christian viewpoint.
Freakazoid!
Lentil season? Everyone sits around and eats lentil soup? Japanese are Buddhist, Shinto, and Christian with a few atheists thrown in to round out the mix. Humor or lunacy or lunatic humor? -
@michaliszissiou said:
What I've noticed on this thread:
Some people act like having the obligation to declare their faith. That's too bad... tooooo bad. Sorry.
Please, make sure that your religion is a matter between you and God only.That makes sense from a non-Christian point of view but you have to understand that Christians believe others are missing out on something great, at best, or in eternal danger, at worst. From that point of view it's like suggesting your neighbor just keep it to themselves when they come over to make sure you know your house is on fire. Penn of Penn and Teller fame, who's a devout atheist makes a good point on this in saying he's highly in favor of people sharing their faith and welcomes the discussions. If they believe it, it would be immoral not to share it.
Besides, this is a thread about God. It would be a bit different if it was a thread about ThomThom's latest cleanup ruby.
-Brodie
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@michaliszissiou said:
Please, make sure that your religion is a matter between you and your God only.
Mike, when you start a post like this next time, you may want to provide a little prerequisite like this one. And don't forget the 'YOUR'....
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Utiler, between you and God only. Not your God. This between/only is more than enough.
Actually, it's the second time I post it, A Wittgenstein's quote. Not mine.
In my opinion:
All this debate here is about this question: Is there a purpose in the universe?
IMO, it isn't about who/what created everything. In any case, it seems that universe is created from nothing, before the existence of time.
But, do we find a purpose in this universe? Do we find a purpose in our existence? Is this what we call "spirit/soul"? In the end, is this what christians call it "Word"?
Here, I have a little problem. Reading the first lines from the Gospel of John. Originally written in greek language, so Logos is translated as Word.
I'm not sure how right this is... maybe. -
Did God create the universe?
Personally I believe he did weather it took 7 days or 7 billion years I don’t know and I/we may never know. The Bible says in Revelation I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Do I understand that, no? How can that be, does time even exists to him? Does this mean he created everything or just Earth? I often ask myself, if God knows all things, past, present and future then where does my free will stand. He knows the sins I will commit tomorrow and so on. With all the things I don’t and may never understand or know for sure about my faith still stands strong. To me that’s why it’s called faith. The question asked here will never be answered, at least while living. The only sure thing is we all will find out the truth we seek on the day our end comes. I’m a proud believer regardless. -
@unknownuser said:
I often ask myself, if God knows all things, past, present and future then where does my free will stand.
How do you understand the concept of free will then? Does it even have to exist for our lives to be as they are?
I personally don't believe in any deity or other sorts of superstition, just because of simple logic:
-I have never encountered such things and I find a great deal of consistency in the way science shows the origin of our existence and simply said: it works
-All arguments I have seen for the existence of the supernatural have been successfully refuted
-I have always found a reasonable answer for anything I don't know yet once I have searched for it.I believe theists trust lies in a similar logic, but the part that is different is the criteria in witch they judge evidence and how they understand the meaning of words. So basically most rational discussions just end with an agreement of a disagreement with the conclusion that the existence of a deity or a supernatural phenomenon can't be proven by evidence that is approved by the other or explained in words without distorting others accepted meaning of them.
You can't convince another if you don't have a common ground to stand on. So if one claims there is a god then he must be prepared to defend his belief in a court of law and by applying the scientific method. This attempt has failed countless times already. On the other hand, if one wants to prove there is no god, then he must be prepared to fight in the imaginary realm of religion, where the rules of logic and reason do not apply, rendering the discussion itself a pointless task of mental masturbation.Some questions discussed here are nicely summed up in quotes of Victor J Stenger in this site
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/stenger.htmIt kind of hurts to see so many of our forum members turning against each other because of such a stupid subject matter like this, so I would like to guide you to a speech by Christopher Hitchens, a truly great man who just recently passed away, that tells about the discussions that we really have worth having.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgIcJb8i4m8 -
@speaker said:
So if one claims there is a god then he must be prepared to defend his belief in a court of law and by applying the scientific method.
Have you ever loved anyone? If so I challenge you to prove it in the manner you specified.
@speaker said:
It kind of hurts to see so many of our forum members turning against each other because of such a stupid subject matter like this,...
I don't see members turning against each other, I see a passionate discussion.
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@unknownuser said:
@speaker said:
So if one claims there is a god then he must be prepared to defend his belief in a court of law and by applying the scientific method.
Have you ever loved anyone? If so I challenge you to prove it in the manner you specified.
Nah. Look at it this way: given all the evidence you've almost certainly compiled over the years (photos, videos, deeds, certificates), and the witnesses there have been in all that time, you'd have a very hard time to prove you do not love your wife, or have at least done so for a certain period of time.
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