Occupy Wall street
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@tfdesign said:
.... current leaders (hung parliament, because so few came out to vote), are both ex-Etonians. They have practically no grasp on reality at all.
This is so true Tom but in order for these privileged to get into power they need votes and in their case (UK) they must be relying on 'not so privileged' voters.
Over here (Ireland) we now have a coalition of right / left wing that is operating under the orders of the IMF (International Monitory Fund) and the ESB (European Central Bank). The Country's population and its unborn are being put into slavery to pay foreign bank bond holders (the 1%).
The citizens of Ireland did not borrow this money from these foreign bankers, the Irish Banks did, but they are being forced to pay what the Banks borrowed via heavier and heavier taxation. The new budget this Xmas will be the back breaker and I think the people will rebel.
However, something is happening over here that I think the World might find interesting. We are having a Presidential election in ten days time. While the President has no real power, she / she can refuse to 'sign off' on a Bill passed by the Government. The matter then goes to the Supreme Court for adjudication and the Court's decision is final. The Government cannot, under law, appeal. In other words its a 'done deal' and they have to get on with it.
Now this is where is gets interesting! There are 5 main candidates running. 3 of the 5 will 'toe the line', so to speak. However there is one candidate that, if elected, I think would throw a spanner in the works if his party's policy is to be believed!
I am talking about Martin McGuinness, the Sine Fine Party candidate. As many will know Mr McGuiness is ex IRA and one of the king pins in the Good Friday Agreement which brought peace to Northern Ireland, on the right in the attached picture!
While talking to a very common sense friend yesterday, I was surprised to hear him say that he was going to vote for McGuiness! I asked why! He said its about time this mess came to a head and we got ourselves into a position to rebuild! He explained his thinking in detail and I could not argue with his logic.
Now, Ireland is only a small entity in the EU and only a small dot in the World BUT our banks owe so much money that if there was a mass default it could well bring the Euro crashing!
Some interesting time ahead! McGuiness is on the right in the attached picture.
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Balls'y thread Pete; I applaud you for it.
You know; in Australia we have been shielded from the impact of the GFC somewhat (China's 'fossil fuel' need helps) but seeing the second wave of economic impact hitting Eurporian countries is a worry for all....
But what shits me, and I apologize for the profanities but in Pete's introductory video at 2.55 minutes has to be a poignant moment.
The media.
We have relied on media since the born of tv to open our eyes to the world. What has happened unfortunately is what we are being feed is not neccessarily what we need to consume.
What social media can do is facilitate provocation and in that is an unbiased voice no matter how small an audience. The difference is this audience has the ability to pass judgment on merit.
Politcal society has a lot to learn in the coming decade IMO.....
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Lack of Democracy fuels these protests.The Wall Street crooks get away with stealing billions and our government is doing NOTHING about it, even talking about laxing regulations. The 1% elite keeps us in endless wars, unpayable debt while they are getting richer. The virtual slave labor imports and open borders helped to kill our jobs, our 401 Ks have been robbed (it was all planned) , our crooked and corrupted politicians created financial bubbles that ruined us. It looks that our politicians are not taking the protests seriously enough until there is bloodshed. Then, it may be too late.
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@solo said:
Lack of Democracy fuels these protests.The Wall Street crooks get away with stealing billions and our government is doing NOTHING about it, even talking about laxing regulations. The 1% elite keeps us in endless wars, unpayable debt while they are getting richer. The virtual slave labor imports and open borders helped to kill our jobs, our 401 Ks have been robbed (it was all planned) , our crooked and corrupted politicians created financial bubbles that ruined us. It looks that our politicians are not taking the protests seriously enough until there is bloodshed. Then, it may be too late.
Totally agree. One really has a sense that these guys are going to keep fobbing us off, not realizing just how much anger is brewing - and when it explodes, will be saying "who could have predicted?"!
"Let them eat Brioche" version 2.0
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@unknownuser said:
Lack of Democracy fuels these protests.The Wall Street crooks get away with stealing billions and our government is doing NOTHING about it, even talking about laxing regulations. The 1% elite keeps us in endless wars, unpayable debt while they are getting richer. The virtual slave labor imports and open borders helped to kill our jobs, our 401 Ks have been robbed (it was all planned) , our crooked and corrupted politicians created financial bubbles that ruined us. It looks that our politicians are not taking the protests seriously enough until there is bloodshed. Then, it may be too late.
Totally agreed Pere.
Totally!!! -
@solo said:
Lack of Democracy fuels these protests.The Wall Street crooks get away with stealing billions and our government is doing NOTHING about it, even talking about laxing regulations. The 1% elite keeps us in endless wars, unpayable debt while they are getting richer. The virtual slave labor imports and open borders helped to kill our jobs, our 401 Ks have been robbed (it was all planned) , our crooked and corrupted politicians created financial bubbles that ruined us. It looks that our politicians are not taking the protests seriously enough until there is bloodshed. Then, it may be too late.
I agree 100%!
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@mike lucey said:
The cure? Buy local until a 'balance' is brought back to commerce! The whole economic World is out of balance and nothing will keep spinning unless its balanced.
"The cure"? I disagree. I think that sentiment is far too simplistic. We are far better off in the west precisely because we have been able to trade with poorer countries and take advantage of those workers in 'sweatshops'. If we 'go local', we'll end up in exactly the same place that William Morris found himself in when he tried to mass produce hand made things by craftsmen. ie, hand made materials and wallpaper could only be afforded by the wealthy, whereas the less wealthy put up with poorly produced products.
I am wearing a high quality t-shirt made by GAP, produced in the 3rd world. My t-shirts cost about Β£8 each, and I have several of them. Some poor sod has had to produce these t-shirts for me. But you know what, although they have been paid next to nothing, they are at least receiving something. I know it's not much, but it is 'something', and this may be the lifeline that's keeping someone alive elsewhere. Withdraw that little bit and what's the alternative? Poverty and prostitution?
On the other hand, all of my trousers are made by a skate company called "Road", and all their garments say "conscience" on them. ie "All of our garments have been made by people who have been paid a decent wage". I assume they're made in Britain? Road Clothing don't say. But wouldn't that be great if the same philosophy could be applied in the 3rd world? Perhaps? But then we may open the same can of worms that I hinted upon in my first paragraph, because Road Jeans come in at about Β£70 a pair. For the average working class family, that's an awful lot of money for a pair of trousers (they are good- and comfy- last for ages!)
A well known example to help illustrate the above perhaps would be the "Fairtrade" organisation. I have no doubts that Fairtrade set out with good intentions, but here we are now, a worldwide corporation who are hard promoting a green agenda. Fairtrade do not promote the idea of automation, preferring more 'natural' and 'organic' principles of farming, and Fairtrade now are absolutely everywhere. This is all very well, and great PR for the west as we sip organic cafe-latte's and chomp on our Cadbury's Dairy Milk bars and have a nice warm feeling about where it comes from. But in south America children and whole families work their fingers to the bone for pittance, because can't bear the idea of allowing them to use any kind of mass production farming methods or machinery that may either 'harm the planet' or release 'dangerous' greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Really, Fairtrade should be encouraging all of their workers to create mass plantations, which are fully automated. The wealth generated would help feed and educate the workers and their children, as well as fund libraries and hospitals etc. But it's not happening, and the affluent west would prefer to return to a dream world where horses pull carts through cobbled streets- very romantic, but there are people in poor countries still doing just that, who desperately want to get out of that because manual labour on a large scale is just so plain hard!
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@solo said:
Lack of Democracy fuels these protests.The Wall Street crooks get away with stealing billions and our government is doing NOTHING about it, even talking about laxing regulations. The 1% elite keeps us in endless wars, unpayable debt while they are getting richer. The virtual slave labor imports and open borders helped to kill our jobs, our 401 Ks have been robbed (it was all planned) , our crooked and corrupted politicians created financial bubbles that ruined us. It looks that our politicians are not taking the protests seriously enough until there is bloodshed. Then, it may be too late.
I think you're half way there, but I also think that you are forgetting the middle classes. I think they are just as guilty in many ways. (read my other post).
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@mike lucey said:
@tfdesign said:
.... current leaders (hung parliament, because so few came out to vote), are both ex-Etonians. They have practically no grasp on reality at all.
This is so true Tom but in order for these privileged to get into power they need votes and in their case (UK) they must be relying on 'not so privileged' voters.
You do know that Tony Blair was elected as leader of the Labour party by the 'block vote' system? Meaning 1 vote= 20,000 votes!!!! Talk about corrupt!! The 1 vote coming from the Chairman of the Co-op here in Britain... lifelong supporters of the Labour Party. And then that idiot took us into Iraq for no reason, after WMD that didn't exist.
The Con-Lib alliance got in by the skin of their teeth in 2010. The last general election turnout was one of the lowest for years.
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WAR ZONE - HUGE RIOTS ATHENS GREECE 19TH OCTOBER 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgij_jkxVC0Things were 'hot' today in Greece and probably will be 'hotted' tomorrow when the Government vote through the latest IMF / ECB austerity measures.
Isn't it ironic that Greece was the home of Democracy. Maybe it could be the home of New Democracy?
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The Greeks on the other hand have got every reason to be angry. And further more, that anger is concentrated at the people who have screwed Greece over, their government!
On the other side of the Atlantic though....... Nice to see Obama siding with the Wall Street protesters. Blaming the bankers lets Obama and his other Washington cronies- both democrat and republican, off the hook.
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Mike wrote:
@unknownuser said:In this day and age, it just does not make sense to me that I elect a politician based on what they stand for and says they will do and then they go back on their word and do as they please or are 'encouraged' to do by the 1%.
...
But what if, an elected Government, having a majority, would also be required to have a majority of citizen continuing support votes on an ongoing basis in order to pass bills / laws as stated in their election manifesto. Surely something like this would keep them on the 'straight and narrow' AND more importantly NOT give the 1% the inclination or ability to 'buy them off'!
I have to connect this to the Green book Juan suggested here: http://forums.sketchucation.com/download/file.php?id=76682
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I thought I'd just share this with you. Einstein, of course, is mostly remembered for his work in physics. But, he also had a very interesting take on politics as well ... Einstein was not a "socialist", but supported socialist economic policies tempered by a strong instinct for individual freedom, personal autonomy, democratic institutions and protection of liberties.
In 1949, Albert Einstein wrote an influential article for the inaugural edition of the Monthly Review titled "Why Socialism?" Walter Isaacson, in his wonderful biography of Albert Einstein: "Einstein, His Life and Universe", wrote a synopsis of that article on page 504:
"In it, he argued that unrestrained capitalism produced great disparities of wealth, cycles of boom and depression, and festering levels of unemployment. The system encouraged selfishness instead of cooperation, and acquiring wealth rather than serving others. People were educated for careers rather than for the love of work and creativity. And political parties became corrupted by political contributions from owners of great capital."
Food for thought ... Cheers.
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@idahoj said:
"In it, he argued that unrestrained capitalism produced great disparities of wealth, cycles of boom and depression, and festering levels of unemployment. The system encouraged selfishness instead of cooperation, and acquiring wealth rather than serving others. People were educated for careers rather than for the love of work and creativity. And political parties became corrupted by political contributions from owners of great capital."
Food for thought ... Cheers.
How true today... here is a bit more from the great thinker
http://atheism.about.com/od/einsteingodreligion/tp/EinsteinPoliticsDemocracy.htm -
@idahoj said:
Einstein, His Life and Universe", wrote a synopsis of that article on page 504:
"In it, he argued that unrestrained capitalism produced great disparities of wealth, cycles of boom and depression, and festering levels of unemployment. The system encouraged selfishness instead of cooperation, and acquiring wealth rather than serving others. People were educated for careers rather than for the love of work and creativity. And political parties became corrupted by political contributions from owners of great capital."
Hey! That's England TODAY!
There's nothing wrong with the fundamental principle behind capitalism, it's just that the capitalist system that we currently live in is wrong. The question is, "what do we do about it"?
But hey! Relax for today, because Man City beat the scum (Man United) 6-1
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@unknownuser said:
Isn't it ironic that Greece was the home of Democracy. Maybe it could be the home of New Democracy?
Greece, no, Athens was the home of Democracy. An Utopia to some, the only event that changed the world and made us individuals, to others.
But now... a new democracy sounds like a new greece. This new greece that's is trying to find something common with the ancients... except our language.
I'm not so optimist at all.
Once again, dear friends... simplicity is the key."Our constitution does not copy the laws of neighbouring states; we are
rather a pattern to others than imitators ourselves. Its administration
favours the many instead of the few; this is why it is called a
democracy. If we look to the laws, they afford equal justice to all in
their private differences; if no social standing, advancement in public
life falls to reputation for capacity, class considerations not being
allowed to interfere with merit; nor again does poverty bar the way, if
a man is able to serve the state, he is not hindered by the obscurity of
his condition. The freedom which we enjoy in our government extends also
to our ordinary life. There, far from exercising a jealous surveillance
over each other, we do not feel called upon to be angry with our
neighbour for doing what he likes, or even to indulge in those injurious
looks which cannot fail to be offensive, although they inflict no
positive penalty. But all this ease in our private relations does not
make us lawless as citizens. Against this fear is our chief safeguard,
teaching us to obey the magistrates and the laws, particularly such as
regard the protection of the injured, whether they are actually on the
statute book, or belong to that code which, although unwritten, yet
cannot be broken without acknowledged disgrace."By Thucydides 431 BC
Translated by Richard Crawley -
Interestingly enough, OWS isn't even getting media coverage anymore ... I read from 4 different news sources on the 'net on a daily basis and not a single one of them reported an OWS event.
However, Jennifer Lopez did have a breakdown on stage: http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/24/showbiz/celebrity-news-gossip/jennifer-lopez-stage-break-down/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Cheers.
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