Chopsaw like tool plugin?
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Hello everyone. I didn't know where to put this question for best consideration. So here goes.
I work a lot with models that intersect at angles,(crown moulding as one example) and use the "intersect model" tool quite a bit, as its the only method I've found for making compound miters in models.(I use two or three other methods though but all have thier own disadvantages) Does anyone know of a plugin that allows a PLANE, to act as the blade of a chop saw..ie..kind of like how the SECTION PLANE works, but where two models intersect. It would be nice to "intersect" two models, select a CUTTING PLANE, and then "chop" each model at the "intersection", and then make the lines beyond the cut disappear. I'd be thrilled to have this type plugin!! I spend WAY too much time intersecting complex models and removing the unwanted edges and faces Thanks for any insight.
fitZ -
Whaats got a couple of plugins that do things like that, the first is Zorro2 and the second is BoolTools. Zorro is probably the best place to start.
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Hello gentleman. Thank you for the replies. Ok remus, I clicked on the Zorro link, and the page with the real link came up, but when I clicked on the link, it took me to a "page not found".
And thank you for the technique modelhead. I'll try it out immedietly. And sorry I didn't get right back here. Not much time to devote fo the "learning curve".
fitZ -
So it does, sorry about that. Heres a working link: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=16038&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=zorro
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Well, with the redirect removal, the extensions index will need a serious update (it would need it anyway) but then thanks for "reporting" this - it's good to be aware of it.
Until then, here is Zorro 2:
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=16038 -
@fitz said:
I work a lot with models that intersect at angles,(crown moulding as one example) and use the "intersect model" tool quite a bit, as its the only method I've found for making compound miters in models.
Have you tried the "follow-me" tool to "extrudeAlongPath" a face around corners while at the same time creating the miter action of which you speak?
When modeling the real world actions of a carpenter, you can't just translate that 1:1 into 3D digital world. Here in digital 3D, we don't go to home depot online and buy crown molding in 16' lengths and then try to accurately fit them to walls by cutting with a Compound Miter Saw.
No, we create the profile once, then extrude(Push-Pull) OR extrudeAlongPath(Follow-Me) the profile and let the "accurate fitting" work itself out. The only trimming may be where you meet a weired ending angle (like a point), but extrusion can even handle "miter returns" if set up properly. Proper technique like modelhead mentioned will trim the excess of a point or other strange ending.
Use extrusion when ever possible, only use intersection as a last resort!
Never try to relate 3D modeling to the real world. In the real world you are a slave, in SketchUp you are an all powerful GOD!
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@unknownuser said:
Have you tried the "follow-me" tool to "extrudeAlongPath" a face around corners while at the same time creating the miter action of which you speak?
Yes, all the time. And in the case of "crown moulding" type models, yea it works fine. However,
the so called "miter action" I speak of, especially using "crown moulding" as an example was a massive oversimplification on my part, as what I REALLY am refering to is different models "intersecting" at angles. Heres why. I design Recording Studios, which because of the physics of sound(reflections) require physical boundarys and many objects to be built at many different angles.
And because WAVELENGTHS don't care if you are working in the digital rhelm, for construction to be accurate, so must the construction documents. This means "i" must "build" these in the digital world as if they were real. Many objects intersect angled walls, ceilings, fixtures, acoustical treatment and equipment. Even multiple layers of drywall, intersects at many different angles, and may be offset from the framing via RSIC clips or Resiliant Channel. TRY to extrude 2 layers of drywall on sloped walls, intersecting compound angled walls, with door cutouts etc, in a construction format. Sure, its easy to extrude a profile, but try to make a cutting bill from it.
Try "follow me" on something like this
@unknownuser said:
When modeling the real world actions of a carpenter, you can't just translate that 1:1 into 3D digital world.
Maybe in your 3d world
In reality, I DO traslate construction to the digital world. I have to. Its my job. AND I and others build from it because I do. Thats why a "chop saw" like digital tool would be a great time saver. And NOT for "crown moulding".
@unknownuser said:
Here in digital 3D, we don't go to home depot online and buy crown molding in 16' lengths and then try to accurately fit them to walls by cutting with a Compound Miter Saw.
Geeez, you mean to tell me all that digital lumber I've been buying at the Digital Home Depot is a waste of time? How dumb of me.
I don't want to sound ungratefull, but I'll file that under "blindingly obvious"
But thanks for the heads up anyway.@unknownuser said:
No, we create the profile once, then extrude(Push-Pull) OR extrudeAlongPath(Follow-Me) the profile and let the "accurate fitting" work itself out.
Hmmm, brilliant. Speaking of "Crown Moulding" profiles, imagine a SUPERSIZE profile, only instead of a solid, imagine a profile which is actually a fabric covered frame, which encloses panels of Owens Corning 703 rigid fiberglass. And then imagine you have to design this so it can actually be built. And then imagine this so called "crown moulding", intersecting angled walls, cielings, compound angled soffits, and wraps around a room intersecting other fixtures etc.
Actually, I see "3d" representations of real world items that have been "extruded" in the Warehouse all the time. But when I download them...HA! either they"re scale a zillion times too big, or when zoomed, they're a joke, or any number of things. However, thats not to say there aren't a million good models in the Warehouse. I use them all the time.
@unknownuser said:
Use extrusion when ever possible, only use intersection as a last resort!
Well, what can I say. It HAS been my last resort.@unknownuser said:
Never try to relate 3D modeling to the real world. In the real world you are a slave,
On the contrary. I HAVE to relate it to the real world because peole BUILD from my models, which I interprete in 2d plans, cutting bills and when need be, I build it MYSELF, which I couldn't do if I didn't draw them as if they WERE REALITY.
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=515&img=1230Soffit_ala_cart.jpg[/img:y6l4o15h]
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=274&img=Unfin_Top_View..jpg[/img:y6l4o15h]
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=290&img=LowerLeftSuperc.jpg[/img:y6l4o15h]An extrusion of this console profile wouldn't tell a builder anything.
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=271&img=3490Unfin_Console_V.jpg[/img:y6l4o15h]
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=371&img=4995Final_componene.jpg[/img:y6l4o15h]
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=321&img=C9.jpg[/img:y6l4o15h]
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=282&img=studio.JPG[/img:y6l4o15h]
[img:y6l4o15h]http://httpics.com//is.php?i=765&img=C24_Console_Und.jpg[/img:y6l4o15h]@unknownuser said:
in SketchUp you are an all powerful GOD!
Well, some people may get overinflated egos from using sketchup, but a POWERFUL DIGITAL GOD? I think you need to sit down. I have some bad news for ya.
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Q: do you print out schematics for each nails location?
Two Suggestions:
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Hire a couple of real cabinet carpenters who don't need step-by-step instructions on how to use a hammer and drive nails -- however, you have to pay them more than 12 bucks an hour! Shoot for the $30.00hr range and up, or cut them in on a percentage.
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Buy or write a good estimation software for your material take-offs. Looks like you spend more time modeling than actually building. All you need "design wise" is to show your customer the end game. Sure, i am a firm believer in design phase, but too much and you've lost the client and wasted too much time -- time is money ya know!
A good carpenter does not need this much info. Sure If your "IKEA funiture" (giggle) and selling particle-board-boxed-furniture to joe public well i can understand such step-by-step details, but...?
Sure some specific areas will need finer detail. But a soffit come on? If he can't build the soffit from a simple length/width dimensioning then he ain't no carpenter.
PS: Time to take out a classified ad
PPS: Chopsaw?Obliviously you are an ivy-league designer and have no real-world construction or construction management experience.
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Jesse, fitZ clearly works in a specialist area and clearly knows what he's doing. Id suggest you stop trying to tell him how to do his job.
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Very Interesting line of work and great modeling. You do indeed go to extremes in providing detail for every part. As an architectural detailer, myself, I'm bowled over. I don't know the time it takes to model all this, but I imagine I'd never get paid for it in my line of work. But I see that the special sort of work may need more attention if you want people to do it right the first time.
Impressive work at any rate.
Peter
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@unknownuser said:
Q: do you print out schematics for each nails location?
As a matter of fact, when it comes to shear walls, YES.
@unknownuser said:
- Hire a couple of real cabinet carpenterswho don't need step-by-step instructions on how to use a hammer and drive nails -- however, you have to pay them more than 12 bucks an hour! Shoot for the $30.00hr range and up, or cut them in on a percentage.
Generals and subs hire who they want. My job is to get them enough info to build to my spec. As to MY skills, does 13 years spent as a Union Architectural Mill journeyman(on the bench with 150 others) with Macys as the client get your stamp of approval or 10 years in the drafting department as a board/CAD detailer? I personally detailed over 300 floors of Store fixturing for Macys as well as their 3 flagship stores. So don't tell me about so called "REAL cabinet carpenters"...in fact, they are NOT cabinet makers...they are MILLWORKERS. Theres a difference. Thats where the $30hr comes in.
@unknownuser said:
Buy or write a good estimation software for your material take-offs. Looks like you spend more time modeling than actually building.
Used it all the time. Try a material take off on a Macys job. I've seen one flitch of Pearwood divided amongst 5 different companys around the nation where every single square inch had to be calculated to get your portion. And talk about materials? Their material/sample/color book on a typical job might contain 15 wood samples/20 or so fabric samples, 20 or 30 color samples, 5 or more metal samples/ not to mention glass, Laminates/ aluminum extrusions etc etc. Materials? you don't have a clue to what I'm used to. However, you seemed to misread something. I refered to "cutting bills", not take off.@unknownuser said:
All you need "design wise" is to show your customer the end game. Sure, i am a firm believer in design phase, but too much and you've lost the client and wasted too much time -- time is money ya know!
I think you underestimate Recording Studio Clients. How would you "design" a control room "diffuser" rear wall built of custom made masonry unless you laid out the "patterns" in the first place to know it would work and how much space it takes..hmmm?
In this case, the "client"(developer of OpenSource)actually wrote software to "dictate" the exterior design, but had to interface with the SECOND LEAF(interior wall masonry).
Like I said. I think you underestimate the potential expectations of Recording Studio clients.
Maybe you don't understand something here. Not only do I design it, for some, I "detail" it too, which is an entirely different animal. I "detail" it so I know if works within the "design", which you may not be familiar with Recording studios. Left to "cabinet makers", and even journeyman carpenters, they don't have a clue UNLESS you show them EXACTLY what is required. That takes "detailing" When is the last time you delt with a "cabinet maker" in New Zealand from the States, hmmm?
Or when is the last time you met a "carpenter" that could translate a Quadratic Residue Sequence into practical cabinet making to build a diffuser with well depths defined by WAVELENGTHS with a roll off at 243hz and well widths and PERIODS defined by the finished interior dimension(after FIVE layers of drywall are applied on RSIC clips and hatchannel)between 12 degree angled sidewalls at a rear wall...hmmmmmm?
Or masons as shown above.Or how bout letting a carpenter in the field decide what gap widths to assign between boards in a Slot resonator Wall...hmmmm? No sir, this is WHY DESIGN and DETAILING go hand in hand. You can't design these things unless you "detail" them first. Not always, but most of the time.
BTW, speaking of Crown Moulding, which method would you aspire to in calculating bevel/miter angle cuts for a Rake Crown on a circular soffit?
(hint..I use the tetrahedron kernal)@unknownuser said:
A good carpenter does not need this much info. Sure If your "IKEA funiture" (giggle) and selling particle-board-boxed-furniture to joe public well i can understand such step-by-step details, but...?
Perhaps, It depends, but even in an architectural mill, with journeyman on the bench, DETAILING and cutting bills is the name of the game. Left to their own interpretation, the mill would be in chaos. Info IS the device of successful construction on a large scale. When is the last time you left the take off for the glass for 1000 or so different angled showcases to a shop cabinetmaker?
@unknownuser said:
Obliviously you are an ivy-league designer and have no real-world construction or construction management experience.
Excuse me? Obviously you don't have a clue to what I've done or where I've worked. Ivy league my butt. Now excuse me, I have a world class studio to design.
Sure would be nice to have a digital chop saw though.BTW, the model above is NOT my work. Wish it was though.
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If you want to continue this slagging match please take it to PMs.
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i don't know Remus, i find it kinda intertaining.
i bet these guys would be fast friends if you put them in the same room with a beer in their hands!
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Pity we havent got any beer
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Nobody said you where a "sub par" designer. I think your designs are great. No need to show us your resume to prove it.
But when you come to a group and ask this...
@fitz said:
I work a lot with models that intersect at angles,(crown moulding as one example) and use the "intersect model" tool quite a bit, as its the only method I've found for making compound miters in models.
Then after i gave you some great advice you go off on some tirade with the notion that i somehow slandered you, well that's just childish!
Then later you even admitted your mis-communication problem here....
@fitz said:
the so called "miter action" I speak of, especially using "crown moulding" as an example was a massive oversimplification on my part, as what I REALLY am refering to is different models "intersecting" at angles.
Makes me wonder of your intentions...?
After looking over your pictures (and man are there a ton of them!) i noticed some errors that i would like to point out. You will probably think i am being mean but you need to know these simple facts about construction before you go off claiming to be some kind of superman!
In the next picture i annotated some horrible mistakes in framing that would cause you to surely fail a structural inspection... and get laughed off a job site...
http://jjsenlightenments.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-not-to-frame-door.htmlThis proves to me your lack of construction knowledge. Your a designer with no formal training in the feild. Sometimes what looks good on paper is nothing more that wishful fantasies and pipe dreams. Not only do you not have the all encompassing knowledge of a project manager, you lack even the basic skills of a 12.00hr carpenter.
Don't try to challenge me at my game!
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