[Plugin] New Piping System Plugin
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@unknownuser said:
Here we go again.
With all due respect, if we let every Joe that can write software launch his/her product at the SCF we are quickly going to lose credibility. This forum benefits from reports and critiques by users, that are motivated to post by the relevant features of the product. Subjective, first hand users of a product only.
I can’t imagine the clutter we are going to have here in a year or so if this keeps up.What what what?
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I like it to see what people do for and with SU.
Where is the place I get to know when not here?...and... would you say the same about smustard and their commercial scripts?
This is a platform where people can present their products/scripts/plugins related to SU. It is our decision to talk about and to test it. For me it is a difference with marketing and let people know about something new.
my2cents -
hm.. well, I don't see any problem with this post or the likes. I find it interesting to hear about what is available. To me it's the same if the creators make a post or if any user make a post.
This post was nothing more than a simple link - no cheesy sales pitches.
I just don't see the issue... -
@watkins said:
Dear All,
What happens when you download the software? Do you get the usual plugins or is there an installer that places software elsewhere? I note that the 'free' offer is only until October 2009. How does that work? Does the installed software time out? I would hate to get used to using it and then find it carries a heavy price tag after October.
Regards,
BobHi Guys,
Maybe I've missed the advise on the price of this PlugIn come Ocober next but I don't think so. I also checked the 'vendors' site carefully and could not see a price anywhere either. I did see 'Use 3skeng Pipe for FREE until October 2009!' and a flashing 'Free' notice. Its a bit confusing to say the least. I am now under the impression that its a free trial ONLY.
I think Bob has asked a reasonable question which deserves and answer. This thread has now become a mini Beta Testing Center for 3skeng! Also there was NO permission sought to announce this 'commercial'. I am now considering putting it into quarantine until this matter / question is answered
satisfactorily. I will now write to 3skeng and clarify the matter.Mike
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modelhead,
I don't think I could disagree with you more! I realize you have jillions of posts, but I, for one at least, browse the forum to see what's going on and to see if there are any new plugins that will make my job easier and/or better. My job depends on SketchUp.
When I see something that might be of value to me I try it out. If it shows promise, even if it's not quite finished, I try to find out what doesn't work and/or what I'd like it to do and post my responses.
I don't know how many plugins I have both from Smustard and from the incredibly talented forum posts from Whaat, TIG, thomthom, Foltz, Fredo, Fullmer, Bur, CadFather, Burch, Wilson, etc., etc.
And if folks like SHK want to clue me into some other source for a plugin, I'm all for it. I would never have known about 3skeng's Piping System Plugin if he hadn't posted the URL here.
I really don't see how this is "watering down" our forum.
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@mike lucey said:
Maybe I've missed the advise on the price of this PlugIn come Ocober next but I don't think so. I also checked the 'vendors' site carefully and could not see a price anywhere either. I did see 'Use 3skeng Pipe for FREE until October 2009!' and a flashing 'Free' notice. Its a bit confusing to say the least. I am now under the impression that its a free trial ONLY.
I agree that mixing up free with "shareware" or "trialware" is confusing and annoying.
@mike lucey said:
Also there was NO permission sought to announce this 'commercial'.
Is it that big of a deal. It was in informational link. I've seen before makers of commercial plugin post announcements only for it to be removed - then hours later a user posts a link and everything is fine. To me it makes no difference to what the source is - new software that are relevant for Sketchup use is of interest.
When developers are active on this forum and communicate directly with us I see that as a good thing. Something I don't want to see discouraged. -
@thomthom said:
When developers are active on this forum and communicate directly with us I see that as a good thing. Something I don't want to see discouraged.
Amen
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Dear All,
In the past two weeks I unfortunately did not visit the SketchUcation Forum as we are really busy with our 3skeng software development tasks.
I want to answer the open questions as follows:
1) Problems to install 3skeng on a MAC
We are sorry if there are problems installing 3skeng on a MAC. Please send us your feedback to support@3skeng.com so we can help to solve the problem. Please note, that 3skeng for MAC is only available for OS/X and SketchUp 7.
2) Pricing after October 2009
To develop professional software is a relevant investment. We have and we do spend a lot of engineering and software development resources into the 3skeng project.
Our intention to release the free version of 3skeng was first to receive user feedback which will help us to align our software development targets and second to learn about the size of the potential user group which need such a piece of software.
The current status is, that we have received a lot of positive feedback and good ideas, also via the SketchUcation forum – Thank you all!
Regarding the potential number of users we learned that we need to be patient and need to spend effort and money into marketing and advertisement. But in the moment we have to concentrate our full energy into software development.
As in almost every software development project we are fighting with the complexity of unexpected problems. The required time and spending is much higher then planned, the earnings are currently zero. Believe me: This project is a relevant entrepreneurial risk!
All this learning is part of our price calculation. As we are in the middle of the learning curve we are currently not able to define a final price. The 3skeng user group are SketchUp Pro users working professional in the field of engineering with focus on piping systems. We promise to set a reasonable price which will ensure a fast return on invest for our target users.
The pricing will also be subject of the extend of the functions we achieve to implement in the first commercial release of the software. To increase usage value of 3skeng we plan to implement the placement of connectors such as flanges in the workflow, offer a pipe-elbow element which allow to reach much easier a defined piping end point and make the integration of T-pieces in existing pipelines a lot easier. The SketchUp-like user interface is always our highest development target.
3) Should this post be kept in the forum or should it be moved to quarantine?
It seems, that this post is in the middle of a more fundamental discussion. The pro and con arguments are all comprehensible.
Here is our view:
Information about a new software can be valuable for this forum even if published by the author.
It would have been so easy to ask a friend to place this post. I thought it is much more straight forward if I post myself with my real name open and honest.
An information, how to solve a problem with an available product can be a lot more helpful then a faked 5 star product review initiated by the product manufacturer. This is not our marketing style and I hope this will be tolerated in this forum.
If the product is good, I am confident an independent forum member would refer to 3skeng sooner or later. To start this post myself was an acceleration task as we need urgent a better understanding if it is worth to invest into the 3skeng project.
The feedback in this thread is so valuable for us also as we have currently no relation to anyone in this forum.
On the other hand I understand the business model of SketchUcation. For sure is work and is cost money to run such a forum.
If this forum support new upcoming projects, the companies behind will spend in advertisement as soon as they are confident, that their business model will work.
As currently the 3skeng Plugin is for free and as there is no third party advertisement linked to 3skeng there is actual no possibility for any return on invest.
Mike, thank you for your email with the link to the advertise pricelist. Please give us room to breath and time to develop our first commercial Plugin for SketchUp. As soon as this product is ready and we find capacities for marketing we will advertise on Forums.SketchUcation.com!
I would appreciate if my answer is satisfactorily for you and you do not move this post into quarantine.
Regards, Sebastian, SHK
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That sounds good to me.
Though, as a 20/20 hindsight remark - it would have beneficial if it was explained clearly from the beginning the plans with keeping the product free until it matures. 1001bit also had/has this model, free versions for the beta testers until the developer found the product mature enough. That was clearly explained so there was no mistaking that it was a commercial product. -
Hi Sebastian
Welcome to SCF and its great to see that you have placed a name and picture. Its aways much easier to talk to a real person, thank you for this.
Also thanks for updating us on the development status of 3Dskeng. It looks that it will be a fantastic weapon in the Mech and Elec guys arsenal and a great time saver.
I'm a little disappointed at you not being able to give at least a 'ball park' price as I think this would have answered Bob's very early question (above).
However I can fully appreciate the difficulties involved in developing such a plugin but from what I can see and read you will get there in the end.
Regarding my email to you, as you have advised you will clarify here on the forum, I will also do likewise.
Again thanks for the update, much appreciated by all I imagine. And I also imagine we all fully appreciate that in these current financial times it is difficult to have budgets for all kinds of development costs.
The Community Members here that are interested in 3Dskeng would generally appear to be giving it the thumbs up! I am also very glad to learn that you are getting valuable feedback from our Members and as I said in my previous post, its acting like a Mini Beta Testing Forum for 3Dskeng. This is fantastic for all involved. I would like to see much more of this in the future.
Could I suggest the following,
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You give just a Ball Park Price (approximate) figure. I am sure that you have something in mind.
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As stated above by me, we appreciate budgets are tight with everything these days. As a goodwill gesture can you take on a number of the guys here, showing interest in 3Dskeng, as Beta Testers with a free license for their efforts when 3Dskeng is launched. I am sure a numeber of our members would be more than willing to help out with MORE valuable feedback.
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My final suggestion is that you consider looking at the Driving Dimensions business model which offer a limited free version which suits the very casual user and encourages the heavy user to get a pro version. This is a great / fair and well thought out deal for all involved.
As regards your comments on five star write ups in The Daily CatchUp. We would be delighted to do a Questions and Answers on you and your company. Please PM me and I will get things moving on this straight away. Hey! The Daily CatchUp is not only for the Rich and Mighty, we want to interview all great plugin developers 
Mike
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
I don't think I could disagree with you more! I
That is ok ..in fact I agree with everything you have said. I would just like a clear separation between pay and no pay. I am suggesting that product announcements continue but in their own unique space. This in fact would make new products easier to find and would keep them away from the member/user motivated posts related to product reviews.
I like that idea.
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
I don't think I could disagree with you more! I
That is ok ..in fact I agree with everything you have said. I would just like a clear separation between pay and no pay. I am suggesting that product announcements continue but in their own unique space. This in fact would make new products easier to find and would keep them away from the member/user motivated posts related to product reviews.
Yeah, I agree with you. Could I suggest that we continue this talk on a new thread and hopefully get more suggestions onboard and then look at how this proposal could be put into action?
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SHK:
I am an illustrator for Brown and Caldwell Environmental Engineers and Consultants. We design and build wastewater treatment plants and do infrastructure repair, upgrades, etc.,(think sewer lines). Piping and ducting is at the heart a lot of what we do.
I showed the plugin in to a design engineer who was quite impressed and keeps asking me about the release of the plugins' "pro" version.
ALSO, they were considering some other things which they may want to have written assuming they would not be included in the "pro" version (as another plugin or perhaps as an option to the baseline "pro" version). This perhaps could be another service which you could provide; custom applications. If you are looking for addition ideas/input to incorporate before final release, I can put you in cantact with this person.
John
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@thomthom said:
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
I don't think I could disagree with you more! I
That is ok ..in fact I agree with everything you have said. I would just like a clear separation between pay and no pay. I am suggesting that product announcements continue but in their own unique space. This in fact would make new products easier to find and would keep them away from the member/user motivated posts related to product reviews.
I like that idea.
I Like it too.
Could I suggest any kind of collaborative effort from people here in the name of the future expansion of SU tools?
I don't know how, but many shareware products often gives discounts or licenses to people betatesting. I was making some localitations to spanish for instance to get some of the shareware (my direct translation to spanish is better than my inverse to english). -
@unknownuser said:
I would just like a clear separation between pay and no pay. I am suggesting that product announcements continue but in their own unique space. This in fact would make new products easier to find and would keep them away from the member/user motivated posts related to product reviews.
@thomthom said:
I like that idea.
Works for me
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@Bob (Watkins): It is our target to roll out more and more functionality and develop with 3skeng a powerful engineering tool. HVAC systems (first industrial and later domestic) will be one of the main focuses of the functionality.
Some more comments regarding the pricing as you asked earlier: The numbers of users for an engineering software based on SketchUp are very limited. It seems that most of the professional users working with the traditional software packages like Autodesk MEP, Microstation, Solid Works etc. even in the conceptual phase. We hope more and more engineers will discover the beauty of fast conceptual design with SketchUp. The pricing of 3skeng must consider the current situation. We ensure 3skeng will give all professional users a lot value for their money and the time saving potential in their daily work will result in a fast return on invest.
@John (JClements): Thank you very much for your post and the offer to get us in contact with the piping engineer in your company.
We are currently in the realization phase for the 3skeng engineering version. There is unfortunately not to much room for changes and additional features for the coming release. I hope for your understanding in this point.
We actual work to implement as much as possible the feedback we received including your comments on page 2 as well as the feedback from Jean Lemire and Howard Leslie (Thanks also to you both) and numerous emails.
The option to use pre-selected centerlines would be without any doubt very useful but the implementation in the actual concept seems to be a too big challenge at this moment for us (i.e. How to create a smart user interface for pipe diameters after reducers or reducing Tees?).
The new pipe function in 3skeng engineering will again focus on conceptual design. The main usage will be piping space arrangement and the fast generation of conceptual piping models. New functionality will help a lot better to draw a pipe from “A” to a specific endpoint “B”. The implementation of a T into an existing pipeline will work much smarter and it will be possible to generate eccentric reducers. An editing function will allow to modify generated pipelines as shown in the movie on 3skeng.com.
It would be very interesting to talk to you and your colleagues. Our main engineering experience is in the field of semiconductor and solar cell manufacturing Fabs. Drain systems and waste water treatment are also required in this field but for sure not in the same extend like in your designs. I will contact you via PM.
@Mike Lucey: We are unfortunately currently not in a position to publish a price for 3skeng engineering. I hope for your understanding.
The idea with the free license for users in this forum who gave us all the valuable feedback is very good. We will contact them as soon as the development has reached the beta release status.
Thank you also for your ideas regarding the 3skeng business model. We will discuss your input in our team.
And thank you very much for the “The Daily CatchUp” offer. We will contact you via PM.
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Thanks Sebastian for this comprehensive reply.
You are a hard man to pin down on price by I am sure you will honour your word when you wrote (above) that 'We promise to set a reasonable price which will ensure a fast return on invest for our target users'. I still think that it would be great to have a limited edition for casual users but understand from what you say, you may look at this option. Casual users can often turn into Pro Users over time as is the case with Google SketchUp and SketchUp Pro.
I look forward to working on The Daily CatcUp interview with you and imagine that many of our members will be interested in learning more about your ideas and company.
Mike
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Dear Sebastian,
Thank you for your detailed reply. I will watch this thread with interest.
Regards,
Bob -
We proudly present 3skeng Pipe Conceptual!The new plugin is now available. It was quite a hard piece of work to shape the software user handling until we reached the point where we had no more idea how to make it faster and even more user friendly.
It took longer then expected, we spent more then calculated… but this seems to be the nature of software development…
At this point, we want to thank you guys for the big amount of positive and constructive feedbacks in this forum and via email which kept us both, highly motivated and focused on our way to finishing this first professional release of this software.
We tried hard to keep the price as low as possible. In relation to the relatively small user group and to the costs of other piping software, we think we reached a quite good target. Believe us: The project is still a relevant entrepreneurial risk and a possible return of invest is far in the future. But: Your feedback, our motivation and our ideas drive us to continue and develop further tools which will make 3skeng to a strong engineering plug-in for SketchUp.
Another good news: We decided to expand the duration for the free version until April 2010. We expect that a fraction of the users who have tried 3skeng Pipe LT decide for the purchasable release, which has quite valuable additional tools and functions.
If you like the software, it would be great if you tell this your colleagues and friends
Check out the new software at http://www.3skeng.com
Regards, Sebastian
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I posted a question on the plugin forum and here is a link to it about your product. Could you take a look at it for me.
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=40075&e=0
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