2012
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Modelhead wrote:
âI'm no longer influenced by a god and it seems that goodness has surrounded me.âAre you shure?!
Whithout God, good/goodness is very relative, and cannot be defined, because we have no a true reference, a perfect standardâŚ
Theoreticaly , whithout God, we can just realise that things exist or not âŚ, but not if they are good or bad.
Practically, we can distinguish if they are good or bad, because God created us âin His image, to be like Himâ, and our conscience directs us, using our remaining âmemoryâ regarding Godâs moral precepts.Modelhead wrote: âOur time on earth runs outâ
⌠and, after that?!?
Cornel
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@unknownuser said:
Theoretically , without God, we can just realise that things exist or not âŚ, but not if they are good or bad.
That's it isn't it? Religion polarizes everything into good verses evil, however it uses it's own definition of evil based on...well exactly what does it base it on? I can think of many evil christian empires of the past, some evil christian supremacist's of today, evil profit based christian organisation, in fact I see more hate, evil and destruction in religion than anywhere else.
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@unknownuser said:
Whithout God, good/goodness is very relative
Of course it is, as it measured by man-made, society-dependant standards.
@unknownuser said:
and cannot be defined, because we have no a true reference, a perfect standardâŚ
Not so fast, Cornel. 'Relative' and 'undefinable' are not interchangeable concepts.
@unknownuser said:
Practically, we can distinguish if they are good or bad, because God created us âin His image, to be like Himâ, and our conscience directs us, using our remaining âmemoryâ regarding Godâs moral precepts.
If there indeed a God, He is without morals, as He has no peers.
@unknownuser said:
⌠and, after that?!?
Either fire or worms.
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@unknownuser said:
⌠and, after that?!?
That's the crux of religion right?, the afterlife, eternity of bliss, reward for being a diligent follower.
Just for a second imagine there was no afterlife, we are here until we expire and decompose, the cycle of life.
Would that not help you to make every second count? and life without the fear of eternal damnation? Maybe immortality is based on your contributions to our evolutionary world by your actions, people like Einstein, Newton, Hitler, Jesus, Shakespear, Ghengis Khan, Pythagoras, Plato, etc, etc will live on forever based on their life achievements, good or bad. -
Just a side note:
Atheism is the fasted growing belief in the world at the moment, we are becoming immune to the superstitious crap that religion spews out, science and technology are our gods now.
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@unknownuser said:
⌠and, after that?!?
Thatâs the mistake that most people make; there isnât any âafterâ as such.
If you are an atheist, there just isnât any afterlife.
If you believe there is something after death, then itâs not of this material universeâŚso itâs outside of space-timeâŚso it canât possibly continue in the same linear, temporal kind of way.
Even if you are religious, you need to rid yourself of the notion that Heaven is somewhere just hidden away from our sight; maybe without gravity and all the cares of this world, but otherwise somewhat similar, where people are still recognisably people and there is still a past, present and future. If it does exist it is absolutely nothing like what we experience nowâŚnot even to there being something as basic as the present moment that is forever becoming â a moment agoâ..
I actually think there is something after; but even I think that the rather radical description above will prove to fall far short of the reality. I certainly don't expect to find cherubim and seraphim. Isaiah might have been a sincere man, but frankly he was hallucinating...not exactly unknown in the overly-devout. Why would they need six wings? Is there an atmosphere in Heaven? So itâs material, not spiritual?It's a demonstrable fact that every second there has ever been still existsâŚit just doesnât exist here and now. We see the sun as it was nearly 9 minutes ago. When we look at distant galaxies, we see them as they were billions of years ago. It follows that every second of your life is still being enacted somewhereâŚfor ever. All the more reason to make the most of it, live it as well as you can and stop worrying unduly about what comes next.
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Alan,
Apostles John and Paul, they were visited the Heaven...
Jesus Christ was and He is in the Heaven...For us, there are no proper words to describe the Heaven...
Isaiah did not hallucinate! -
Pete, wrote:
ââŚevil profit based christian organisation, in fact I see more hate, evil and destruction in religion than anywhere else.âI believe in Godâs Word â the Bible. Iâm not member of any kind of religious organization - Iâm not an exponent of others.
To be christian, means to live like Jesus ChristâŚ
âWhat was wrong in Jesus life?â, was my question on page 10, but no answersâŚOn page 10 olso, I mentioned about divers diversionist organizations auto-intituled christians, that are/were acting, producing crimes, disorder, confussion, etc.
On page 5 I presented a several examples (from the Bible) of what true religion means, but no commentsâŚNow, because you, Pete, are doing a compound of such discrepant things, it suggested me that you are into turmoilâŚ
For your knowledge, there are three kind of christians:- by name (so called christian);
- ânaturalâ cristian;
- âspiritualâ christian.
Do you know differences in-between this three categories?
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Stinkie wrote:
âNot so fast, Cornel. 'Relative' and 'undefinable' are not interchangeable concepts.â
They are, because your relative moral precepts can be defined for a club, not to be valuable for all mankind, as the Bible is.Stinkie, you affirmed that finally a human being will be âeither fire or wormsâ.
Is the human spirit included in those presuppose âshapesâ?!Cornel
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A name christian is what 75% American consider themselves, that's live a normal (sinfull) life, go to church every now and again (read funerals and weddings) and look down at other religions.
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A natural christian is best summed up with words like obsession, a very restrictive lifestyle, devoid of true expression unless it's in praise or honor of your supreme leader, best explained here: Eph 5:15-17
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A Spiritual christian is one that breaks loose from the shackles of tradition/religion and lives a spiritual life, Kinda like early Native Americans, lost Amazonian tribes, etc, with the exception they do not pay homage to the sun, clouds, mountains, rivers or animals but to Jesus.
And you asked: âWhat was wrong in Jesus life?â
Nothing, but can you kindly keep it to yourself? I'm not interested it that life, so no need to feel the need to save me, I'm perfectly safe.
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@unknownuser said:
Stinkie wrote:
âNot so fast, Cornel. 'Relative' and 'undefinable' are not interchangeable concepts.â
They are, because your relative moral precepts can be defined for a club, not to be valuable for all mankind, as the Bible is.Errrr ... I think you're getting a tad caught up in your own newspeak here.
@unknownuser said:
Stinkie, you affirmed that finally a human being will be âeither fire or wormsâ.
Is the human spirit included in those presuppose âshapesâ?!I meant that the 'afterlife' will consist of either burial or cremation. The best you can hope for, is that parts of you will be recycled to help out others. As for 'the spirit' - now there's a concept that makes me think of really large, unisex training pants. One can fit anything in there.
Alan, could you elaborate a bit further on your concept of afterlife? No - not poking fun at you. I'm quite serious.
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I agree with you Solo
there's enough judging of people by other people, without being judged by an omnipitant power - & should there be such a thing, what a poor view these religious people have of their god that they think it so malevolent.
They cant have it all ways - either it created everything, including our thoughts, or it's just using ius for it's own amusement.
We might as well worship a paper bag - or the sun (which very popular once!)When i was at school, although not a religiuos school, it was instilled in everone to worship god. As i got older i realised it was a myth, but for quite a long time i was secretly afraid to deny a god, it was that deeply ingrained - we are so fragile in our formative years.
We don't need religion or the threat of retribution to lead good lives - i'ts a natural thing to treat others well, simply because it's what works for everyone.
We are not in the stone age, we all know right from wrong.This is not say i'm not spiritual - we are all made of the same stuff, the connection between us is a common history, common worries, common - well, common everything
(i know, a bit buddhist)Maybe it's communication that we lack.
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Stinkie wrote:
âI meant that the 'afterlife' will consist of either burial or cremation. The best you can hope for, is that parts of you will be recycled to help out others.âIs there a problem for you if those âothersâ will be undesirable beings or things?!
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@unknownuser said:
Stinkie wrote:
âI meant that the 'afterlife' will consist of either burial or cremation. The best you can hope for, is that parts of you will be recycled to help out others.âIs there a problem for you if those âothersâ will be undesirable beings or things?!
What do you mean?
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Stinkie,
Iâm not in your situation, to be "recycled fot others"âŚMy âsceneâ will be this one:
âFor the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.â
(1 Thessalonians 4:16)Cornel
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Ed Hallam wrote:
âWe are not in the stone age, we all know right from wrong.â?!?!
The word INHUMAN denote that we have, in our conscience, an ideal model, which shows us what we have to do to be correctâŚ
This presented that God created us âin His image, to be like Himâ, but we are far now from that model; we are into a certain dynamic devolution.In Psalm 8:4-5 it is written:
âWhat is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor.âApart from God, humans lost that initial âglory and honorâ and took a new human âcomponentâ named âsinful natureâ, which enormous contributes to our devolution.
Post-modern humans arenât more intelligent than a primitive oneâŚTake a child from a wild jungle tribe and put him/her into a very presigious suite of schools, in the most advanced country, and you will see no differencesâŚ!
Man capacities werenât created by the progress, as evolutionists affirm. Human beings had them from the beginning, but they didnât know how to materialize themâŚ!Cornel
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Cornel, almost everything you have just written there is total nonsense. If we have some model within us that dictates how we should behave, itâs largely cultural and doesnât owe anything to any deity.
Other societies adopted practices that they regarded as totally normal and unremarkable that we would now judge to be totally abhorrent. Weâve come a long way over the last few hundred years in becoming far more tolerant and forgiving of other people; and this has gone hand in hand with an increasing secularism.
Our ancestors might have been far more rigorous in their religious observance, but that didnât stop them attending public executionsâŚoften for very minor offencesâŚin the same spirit we now go to a sporting event. What price the example of âHe who is without sinâŚâ there? Even the oh-so-pious Victorians thought nothing about hanging or deporting children for merely stealing enough to eat.Post modern humans (whatever thatâs supposed to mean) may not be more intelligent than earlier Cro Magnons, but they are a helluva lot more educated and knowledgeable and are therefore able to make far more informed decisions.
Take a child from a primitive society and educate them in an advanced nation and youâll get an educated modern child. The idea that there will be no difference is ridiculous. There are a huge number of examples of this.
Of course our capacities increased with evolution. Thereâs a vast difference between our reasoning powers and those of Homo Erectus or the Australopithecines.
I guess this is the point when you jump in and say that there were no such creatures and the world was created in 4004 BC?
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Alan,
I know enough all so called âadvanced theoriesââŚ
After I did study them (plus Terra history), intensive, more than fifty years, I established a clear conclusion:
The Bible is true and has no inadvertences or competitors.Regarding evolution, we are into an incontravertible devolution!
Progressive technology doesnât mean evolution...W/ optimism,
Cornel -
@alan fraser said:
Simply maintaining that the Bible is true because it is; and that everything that contradicts it must be wrong, is no kind of argument. Itâs not even FaithâŚjust a dumb acceptance.
Aye.
@unknownuser said:
Stinkie wrote:
âI meant that the 'afterlife' will consist of either burial or cremation. The best you can hope for, is that parts of you will be recycled to help out others.âIs there a problem for you if those âothersâ will be undesirable beings or things?!
I'd still like to know what this means. In English, please.
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@unknownuser said:
Progressive technology doesnât mean evolution...
Who said it did?
@unknownuser said:
I know enough all so called âadvanced theoriesâ
Apparently not enough.
Technology has nothing whatsoever to do with evolution; and evolution is not a 'so-called advanced theory', it's incontravertibly true. To deny it you might as well deny that the Earth is round. If you don't accept evolution then you don't accept modern medicine...they often rely on the same techniques. It's the choice between CAT scans and casting out demons.Simply maintaining that the Bible is true because it is; and that everything that contradicts it must be wrong, is no kind of argument. Itâs not even FaithâŚjust a dumb acceptance. If believing what you do helps you get through the day, thatâs fineâŚfor you. We all have strategies for dealing with life. That does not mean, however, that itâs fine for everyone else or that they are somehow too blind to see the âTruthâ.
I also believe that large parts of the Bible are true. For instance, I believe that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyedâŚbut by natural catastrophe, not some vengeful god. I think the people who put that interpretation on it were historyâs version of the spiteful, mean-minded, holier-than-thou types that labelled Aids as Godâs revenge on the wicked. We still get ample evidence of the ignorant, superstitious and prejudiced interpreting âGodâs will.â Thereâs nothing to suggest that the same thing hasnât happened throughout history.
There's a YouTube video of some mullahs arrogantly asserting that the Boxing Day tsunami was God's revenge on the unrighteous...flaunting their bodies on the beaches instead of presumably being at prayer. Same difference.
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