Moving things around to different layers
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Never mind, you right click on the entity and select "entity info" and change it there.
Still wondering about renaming Layer Zero. Another thing though... What exactly does "explode" do besides flip all my paint to the outside of my model?
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You willl tend to have problems if you move loose geometry off of layer 0. You'll probably have better results if you leave all geometry on layer 0 and then only move groups and components off to other layers. Hope that helps,
Chris
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Ok, I see.
I'm using layers in Sketchup like layers in Photoshop. I'm most likely going to have over 100 layers when I'm done. Layer Zero is actually empty, and when I go there and see geometry, something is wrong.I'm building a 22 story structure. Each floor has a "Print" layer where I import a png with the floorplan that I trace out. the next is a "skin" layer for each floor that shows external geometry. There is a "floor" layer which is all the internal rooms. "Elevator" is just the elevator shafts. Then each floor has an extra layer for experiments and such.
so we have 22 x print + skin + floor + elevator + extra = 110 layers at least, barring any odd things like components.
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Take Chris' advice: never move lose ("raw, ungrouped" etc...) geometry away from Layer 0 (BTW you cannot rename it and it's also called the "default" layer). The reason (partly) is:
@halkun said:
I'm using layers in Sketchup like layers in Photoshop.
Bad. In PS ,layers are to separate different things (I cannot call them "geometry" but things that are equivalent to geometry in SU).
Layers do not separate geometry in SU - they only control visibility. Thus if you put some lose geometry on one layer and some neighbouring geometry onto another, they will still be interactive and if you modify something on layer 1, it will affect something else on layer 2.
Only groups and components separate geometry in SU. To see what I mean above, have a look at this video:
[flash=425,344:1qvs5zn5]http://www.youtube.com/v/fBdP499iw0Y&hl=en&fs=1[/flash:1qvs5zn5]
So the general workflow should look like this (some are redundant and only sem to repeat themselves from different points of view):
- Model everything on the default Layer 0
- Always leave and keep your lose geometry on Layer 0
- Never even change the active layer (the round "radio button") from Layer 0
- Never put anything apart from groups and components on any other layer than Layer 0
- If you want to put something on other layers, always group it first (or make component)
Otherwise you will end up with a big mess, I promise.
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@gaieus said:
Take Chris' advice: never move lose ("raw, ungrouped" etc...) geometry away from Layer 0 (BTW you cannot rename it and it's also called the "default" layer). The reason (partly) is:
@halkun said:
I'm using layers in Sketchup like layers in Photoshop.
Bad. In PS ,layers are to separate different things (I cannot call them "geometry" but things that are equivalent to geometry in SU).
Layers do not separate geometry in SU - they only control visibility. Thus if you put some lose geometry on one layer and some neighbouring geometry onto another, they will still be interactive and if you modify something on layer 1, it will affect something else on layer 2.
Only groups and components separate geometry in SU. To see what I mean above, have a look at this video:
[flash=425,344:p8ryhd56]http://www.youtube.com/v/fBdP499iw0Y&hl=en&fs=1[/flash:p8ryhd56]
So the general workflow should look like this (some are redundant and only sem to repeat themselves from different points of view):
- Model everything on the default Layer 0
- Always leave and keep your lose geometry on Layer 0
- Never even change the active layer (the round "radio button") from Layer 0
- Never put anything apart from groups and components on any other layer than Layer 0
- If you want to put something on other layers, always group it first (or make component)
Otherwise you will end up with a big mess, I promise.
I must say I've had a hard time coming around to this Layer 0 workflow, and need to improve my bad habits. <sizzling mental stew> I'm getting better, one layer at a time.
This begs the question though: Let's say there's a group or component on Layer X and I want to edit or modify it. Am I supposed to move it back to layer 0 before I work on it? Or will it behave properly now that it's not loose geometry any more? I guess you're saying put it back on Layer 0 if that's the only layer ever-ever-ever to be the active layer.
So, then why are we even able to make the other layers active? Is that for experts only? Emergency use only? Or is it just trouble waiting to happen?Thanks
Dean -
Hi Dean,
Say you have a group on Layer X but the loose geometry inside is still on Layer 0. Now if you haven't changed your active layer to anything other than Layer 0 and go inside the group to edit it (say adding stuff), you will still be adding to Layer 0 (see note2 below) but if you close the group, the group as a whole will be still on layer X. So you don't have to put the group back to layer 0 to edit it.
Note[1] that Layer 0 also works differently than other layers. If you have a group on layer X and its loose content on layer 0 and you turn off layer 0 (you can only do this by disabling it as an active layer though), its content will still be displayed.
If you put the loose geometry onto layer 1 for instance and the group containing it on layer x and you turn off layer 1, you cannot see anything any longer.
Note[2] this is one reason why you shouldn't change active layers. You will at some point forget what is active and start ading loose geometry to other layers. It is not "forbidden" - just needs much attention.I wouldn't even say that it's for "experts" only but it definitely needs a very steady workflow that has become the routine of someone who therefore never makes a mistake.
All in all: you cannot make big mistakes by always modeling (and keeping) loose geometry on layer 0 and never changing the active layer but if you don't follow this, you might (or rather say most probably will) end up with a mess.
Thank God there's a plugin which puts all loose geometry back to Layer 0 (and you can imagine how important tip this is if even plugins are written to fix messy models).
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In some of my models I had a "Temporary" Layer, just so I could get something out of my way for a time and then put it back. Is that a good way to flow?
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Well, our advices are just general suggestions and guidelines that proved to be efficient and fairly fool proof. Ant workflow can be good and valid as long as you can keep your model tidy.
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Ah, I see.
My use of layers is being used from a CPU standpoint. When this model gets big, I need to visually separate the floors so my computer isn't killing itself rendering the scene.
Say like I make a new floor. I'll check Zero to see if it's clean. Then I make a new layer, switch to it and import a floorplan picture. I then turn on the floor plan picture of the layer previous, turn on x-ray and align the floors. Then the old floor is turned off. Now I make a new layer, switch to that, and trace out the floor. After I'm done, I turn off the floorplan picture and do a push-pull to make my floor 3D. I do not make component-ize this as I need it to stay "fluid" while I put in components such as rooms. After I import a room component, I make it unique, and intersect it with the current visible layer. Then I cut holes in the floor plan and the room component for the door and then intersect for windows. (The windows and doors cut through multiple components in different places, making a single "door" component impracticable. Sketchup has no CSG functions) After my floor and rooms have been "carved" I then make the floor a component, turn off all visible layers, go to Layer Zero, clean up, and move to the next floor.
It works for me. I know I'm dragging nails across the chalkboard for some. I haven't run across a problem yet. The simple rules are NEVER have anything selected when you switch layers and be hyper-aware of what is the layer you are working on. As my workflow is methodical, I have to set the "scene" before I work and layer selection is done before the pen is dropped on the model.
I liken it to when the spreadsheet "Visicalc" first came out and people used it to make lists. The next version of Visicalc was explicitly designed so that making lists was difficult (It was not "designed" to do that). There is a reason we all use Excel now.
If I'm using the program wrong, so be it. It doesn't seem to damage my workflow at all. The only real problem is that I can't make a component that can "cut" across multiple components or layers of geometry, and have to rely on intersections and clean-up. That's just a limitation of Sketchup and not layer related.
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@unknownuser said:
If I'm using the program wrong, so be it. It doesn't seem to damage my workflow at all.
If you have a settled workflow and able to follow it without any problems, no-one can say "you are using the program wrong". What we mean here (and especially in the "Newbie department") is that if someone has no experience or a well founded workflow, (s)he shouldn't switch between layers without really knowing what (s)he does.
@unknownuser said:
The only real problem is that I can't make a component that can "cut" across multiple components or layers of geometry, and have to rely on intersections and clean-up. That's just a limitation of Sketchup and not layer related.
That's true - it has nothing to do with layers but components which separate geometry and prevent things from interacting and affecting each other. But never mind; components cannot cut through thick walls anyway so once someone models with double faced walls, needs to intersect things (or use other tricks) anyway.
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