Landscape plants

Richardplant · 2 Dec 2008, 18:58

I have time to design accurate 3d trees/plants. (I would use my extensive knowledge in horticulture). Can someone direct me/advise me to an a-z on tutorials/techniques in the best way to start in SU, and/or Blender, or any other software,(Not expensive!). I am reasonably handy with SUpro6, so am more than happy to create models there with rendering plugins.

Tobobo · 3 Dec 2008, 08:37

Natural forms are very hard to do in SU.

But good luck any way

PS can you do a pleached tree?

PPS you could use the Subdivide and smooth plugin from SMustard to do the branches

Richardplant · 3 Dec 2008, 12:46

Thanks modelhead. I realize the task ahead, but even with little snippets of advice like yours, goes in someway for me to go forward, as forward I will go! I believe there are a lot of people out there who would like a decent library of trees/plants. I have the time, and a great horticultural knowledge, just not enough SU knowledge yet. I'd like to think that with diligence, and an organized mind, I could make pretty decent models!

Tobobo, I will certainly try to do pleached trees. When I've got to a decent standard!!!

Richardplant

mateo soletic · 3 Dec 2008, 16:06

Richard, Welcome to the forum.
The problem with 3D plants and trees is that they usually become large files and it becomes impossible to place a lot of them in a model. What people usually do is to create them in some other application such as onix trees and use them later by placing them inside the rendering application. Sketch Up is not exactly the best application for creating realistic plants and trees.

Anyway have a look at some of these recent threads regarding trees and making trees.

http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13889&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=trees
http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=14300&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=trees
http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=14440

Richardplant · 4 Dec 2008, 10:00

Again, many thanks Mateo. Yes, I'm beginning to understand the problem. It's a shame, as I know a lot of landscapers use SU, of course it's great for hardscaping. Maybe, SU in time will be able to address this problem. However, in the meantime, I think I will still go on and create some plants/trees to add to the warehouse. Thanks for links also.
Richardplant

solo · 4 Dec 2008, 11:33

As long as you can make them lean enough to use in SU, we would love more trees.

I have a few tropicals here: http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11256&p=77201&hilit=solopalm#p77201

Gaieus · 4 Dec 2008, 11:39

If you could get the leaves to remain single image entities (with no geometry added) as instances of the same component, only the trunk and branches would weigh the model as far as poly count goes. In this case, it would be even a snap to replace the leaf components with autumn or spring ones (or even add blossoms) if using say two sets of leaf components).

I wonder if Didier's Component Spray plugin could speed up the process of placing these leaves onto the branches.

Richardplant · 4 Dec 2008, 14:43

Thanks Solo and Gaieus for further info. It was going to be my next question,(after Mateo's reply), whether I could keep the file size down in someway without losing quality.

I'll have to work out a little to what you've said. (Still walking, not running yet!)

I noticed that a 'Tom' was mentioned in a post as your 'plant man'! Not wanting to tread on his toes, but if he would care to give me a little more advice on what he did, or rather a good starting point, or any tips he'd care to pass on, just maybe I could take things a little further? Or at least increase a library by species. (In time!).

Thanks again for your time,
Richard

Richardplant · 4 Dec 2008, 14:47

Solo, I should have looked at your designs first before replying! I was just in a hurry to say thanks! They're great! They've showed me what can be possible!!! Just need to get the file sizes down huh?
Thanks Richard

Gaieus · 4 Dec 2008, 14:51

@richardplant said:

I noticed that a 'Tom' was mentioned in a post as your 'plant man'! Not wanting to tread on his toes, but if he would care to give me a little more advice on what he did, or rather a good starting point, or any tips he'd care to pass on, just maybe I could take things a little further? Or at least increase a library by species. (In time!).

Here are [url=http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/search.php?keywords=tree&terms=all&author=tomsdesk&fid[]=40&sc=1&sf=firstpost&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=-1&t=0&submit=Search ]some of his works[/url] (when there is an attachment, you need to click on the topic to see).

Anyway, he is (mostly) doing watercolour style trees so it wouldn't count for a real "competition" therefore don't worry about stepping on his toes.

There used to be a nice tutorial on 2.5D trees by him on the old @Last forum but it doesn't sem to be available any more and I cannot for the life find it now in the Google Groups where it has been migrated.

solo · 4 Dec 2008, 14:52

Richard

Thanks, unfortunatly SU does not handle high poly models too well and trees only are placed to compliment one's model so having high poly trees will kill your performance. I believe having low poly 3D trees for massing a scene in the background and using one or two high quality clipmap/.png trees for the foreground works well, or if possible a high quality foreground 3d tree placed at end just before rendering or image exporting.

Richardplant · 4 Dec 2008, 15:01

Thanks again guys.
Richard.

EarthMover · 4 Dec 2008, 19:23

Hi Richard,

As a fellow Landscape/Hardscape designer who uses sketchup to present my landscape designs, I found the best way to do it is by using faceme components and clipmaps instead of true 3D models. You lose a little in overall shadow and lighting quality, but you make up for it in variety and quicker turnaround times. There are several nice collections of landscape plants for sale online. I use http://www.imagecels.com quite a bit, but the best plants I have are ones I made myself.

I have running relationships with my local nurseries and growers, and they allow me to come in and photograph plants at my leisure. I'll usually take someone with me who can hold up the white background that I rigged up out of some 2x2's and a sheet. They hold this behind the plant or tree and I photograph it. Then I take them into photoshop and use Vertus Fluid Mask to remove the white background. Then I take them into sketchup and save them as faceme components. Come spring and summer, I have plans with a local grower to photograph and catalog over 300 perennials to add to my collection, or possibly turn around for commercial sale.

I think this is the only way that makes sense in our business, as one would need a vast pool of plants in order to properly design, and this would take years and years to try and model. Not to mention trying to put a few hundred plant models into a design, even at low poly, would grind sketchup to a halt. Programs like Vue and Podium will recognize the transparency of your plant components and render them transparent. This makes it fast and easy to render a high quality design and still maintain quick turnaround.

Another option, which I use quite a bit for quick designs, is to import my Sketchup model/hardscape layout into Realtime Landscape Architect (http://www.ideaspectrum.com/ ) and quick drag and drop from their catalog of 5000 landscape plants. The program will also put out a decent render and animation walk through, with lights, waterfalls and even birds and butterflies. It's a neat program for less demanding customers.

Anyway, below is a quick render I just whipped up in Vue, showing a few of the several hundred plants I've made, to give you an idea.

Alan Fraser · 4 Dec 2008, 20:37

About the only successful way to produce reasonably realistic trees in SU is to use images of entire branch systems instead of trying to model them in geometry. Anything much more than 5000 faces is not going to be much use in any kind of numbers...preferably little more than half that number. Even then, I've had people complain that using too many such trees brings SU to its knees.

Modelling an individual leaf as a component and cloning it several thousand times is probably not a good idea, as SU then has to open all those separate groupings. This uses mucho CPU power.

There's a fairly realistic tree I have modelled on this thread.
http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8246&p=48733&hilit=alan+transparent+tree#p48733

I've turned the opacity of the canopy down, so that architectural detail can show through, but it can always be turned up to a higher level.
I've got a collection of trees on FF starting here.
http://www.formfonts.com/search.php?area=1&site=&query=3d+trees

The heaviest one is a live oak, at just under 5000 polygons. A few of those and SU really starts to creak.
http://www.formfonts.com/viewModel.php?view=1&id=5017&config=1

EarthMover · 4 Dec 2008, 22:00

I think the ArcViz community really regards trees and plants and merely entourage. Something to add realism, or to frame out the sight lines of their architecture. There is really no need to distinguish between one type of tree or shrub and another, nor is there reason to understand the fundamentals of horticulture in general. I will often cringe when I look at a beautiful archviz render and there are trees grouped together that would never survive together because of their zone, or when architects drop sun loving shrubs in a pure shade area, things like that.

When a landscape architect goes into a design situation, the bulk of the structural architecture is already in place and we are coming in to soften the hard lines, create warmth and curb appeal, add beauty and harmony, etc. For us, plants and trees mean a lot more to our design, as they are the focal point. We are trying to show a client what their landscape will look like as it exists with the architecture of the home. In order to use sketchup as a landscape design tool, there needs to be a more diverse selection of plant material. Especially when it comes to specimen trees and shrubs, as well as perennials.

Google has been sending out representatives to landscape architect tradeshows all over the country, in an attempt to promote sketchup as a landscape design tool. This has lead to a lot of discouragement in the amount of available plant material. It would be wise for Google to make available a wider selection of plants, or they will not retain the bulk of the landscape crowd that they are marketing to.

Richardplant · 5 Dec 2008, 09:34

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice. Seems I've got a hell of a lot to learn just in basic computing!!!

Anyway, I'll be here at the forum more often, as It's a great way to learn more about SU, and seems a nice community to encourage me to maybe place anything that I do that may be 'worthy' into the warehouse!
Richard