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⚠️ Libfredo 15.4b | Minor release with bugfixes and improvements Update

Religion anyone?

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  • C Offline
    cornel
    last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 7:17 PM

    Modelhead,
    It's well known that it was THE CONCLUSION of many specialised competent engineers... 👍

    Cornel

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    • A Offline
      Alan Fraser
      last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 7:26 PM

      Of course God exists outside of time. He has to...there wasn't any such thing as time prior to the creation of the universe, it's a function of mass, space and the speed of light.

      But we're not talking about God; we're talking about the creation of a very physical and tangible earth. That earth had to be formed according to a timescale...and the one in the Bible makes no sense at all.

      As for Noah. Here's the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, written centuries before the rise of the Hebrews. http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab11.htm

      It's all in there, albeit with a few changes of name and detail...the flood, the boat, the chosen few and their livestock, the grounding on the mountain...even the dove sent out on a recon mission.

      The plain fact is that flood myths abound all over the Middle East...and beyond. We are talking Early Bronze Age here. Precisely the time when the sea levels were rising after the last Ice Age and some areas of very fertile land then below sea level, now under the sea were inundated catastrophically when the higher ground separating them from the sea finally gave way (like the Bosphorus). The result was the flooding of basins that are now the Black and Red Seas.

      3D Figures
      Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
      You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

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      • C Offline
        cornel
        last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 7:27 PM

        Solo,
        Those were your words:
        “You believe in the whole Noah story right? a 900 year old man collects two of every animal and stores it on his boat and weathers out a flood right?"

        …mentioning GREAT FLOOD TIME.

        Noah was 600 y. old in that time.

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        • S Offline
          solo
          last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 7:27 PM

          Acceptable, you are correct on that, I concur on age at time of storm. Thats one pretty old dude nonetheless huh?

          Anyway, back to your opinion on video clip....

          http://www.solos-art.com

          If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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          • C Offline
            cornel
            last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 7:53 PM

            Alan,
            I know those hypothesis and many…, and many…
            I’m not at a ‘starting point’! I did study ‘libraries’…, about suppositions, theories, etc.

            Yor are right, the Earth was formed “according to a timescale”, but correct periods are those exposed in the Bible (Genesis).
            I’m not so religious to believe every ideea, even it is written in ‘uppercase’ or trumpeted in the name of Science.

            Cornel

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            • C Offline
              cornel
              last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 8:04 PM

              Solo,
              That video-clip didn’t start. It looks like a square white spot, but without a link…!
              Can you give me the path of it? 🎉

              Sorry for this inconvenient!
              Cornel

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              • S Offline
                Stinkie
                last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 8:07 PM

                @unknownuser said:

                I’m not so religious to believe every ideea, even it is written in ‘uppercase’ or trumpeted in the name of Science

                This is some seriously warped rhetorics. You're not religous enough to believe every idea that's 'trumpeted' in the name of science. What does that mean?

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                • S Offline
                  solo
                  last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 8:09 PM

                  Sure thing.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQLD59fK_Iw

                  http://www.solos-art.com

                  If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                  • C Offline
                    cornel
                    last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 8:36 PM

                    Stinkie,
                    To believefor example in those millions y. or billions y., you have to have a HUGE FAITH.
                    Can you verify them? Which Laboratory will take that responsibility?!
                    Besides that, almost all theories were continuously changeable…!

                    Do you know a verse like Luke 19:40?:
                    “And he (Jesus) answered and said, I tell you that, if these shall hold their peace, the stones will cry out.”
                    “Stones” (the Archeology, for example) are more eloquent than ‘words’!

                    Cornel

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                    • R Offline
                      remus
                      last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 8:42 PM

                      Its not a belief that the universe started billions of years ago. It is an idea. Science has nothing to do with faith.

                      http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                      • S Offline
                        Stinkie
                        last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 8:50 PM

                        @unknownuser said:

                        Stinkie,
                        To believefor example in those millions y. or billions y., you have to have a HUGE FAITH.
                        Can you verify them? Which Laboratory will take that responsibility?!
                        Besides that, almost all theories were continuously changeable…!

                        Let's get a couple of things straight. There's no 'believing' involved here, at least not on my part. I don't 'believe' in the theories that scientists propose - I merely deem them less implausible than the idea of a supreme being.

                        Why? Well, precisely because "almost all theories were continuously changeable". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

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                        • T Offline
                          tomasz
                          last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 8:59 PM

                          I see Solo that 'I believe..' thread made you nervous. So did your find to me.
                          Probably you have read why I believe and what I believe in. The author of the clip stretched the facts far too much. I have spent enough time on the internet to find out that several things are simply not true. Especially those regarding the date of 25th of December. Obviously I do not deny there are similarities in several cases.

                          You 'have spent a lot of time examining Christianity' as I understood.
                          You see, it is not a matter of trying to verify if the 'Good News' is true, checking historical sources.
                          It is a matter of opening your heart to the message.
                          If I would tell you that you can meet the One I believe in .. just by asking him to come.. would you be brave enough to do it and be serious in it. Not just for a fun.
                          I know you are ultra sceptic in this matter.
                          Do you believe in love? Is it only a bio-chemical process inside us? If you follow this path you will understand more.
                          The essence is to experience love. To let it work. You will find a lot of bad 'Christians' too, but it doesn't mean what we live is illusion.

                          Author of [Thea Render for SketchUp](http://www.thearender.com/sketchup)

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                          • C Offline
                            cornel
                            last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:06 PM

                            Remus wrote:
                            “Its not a belief that the universe started billions of years ago. It is an idea. Science has nothing to do with faith.”

                            This implicates that ‘Evolution Theory’ is an imaginated story… Only "it is an idea" !

                            Cornel

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                            • S Offline
                              Stinkie
                              last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:13 PM

                              Oi! Be
                              @unknownuser said:

                              Remus wrote:
                              “Its not a belief that the universe started billions of years ago. It is an idea. Science has nothing to do with faith.”

                              This implicates that ‘Evolution Theory’ is an imaginated story… "It is an idea."

                              Cornel

                              Sigh. I am no scientist, but even I understand the core concepts of scientific thinking. Either you don't, or you're deliberately persisting in some sort of ludicrous obscurantism.

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                              • A Offline
                                Alan Fraser
                                last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:17 PM

                                Cornel, the age of the earth has been verified in just about EVERY laboratory on earth. Maintaining that it is still a matter of debate is just ridiculous, You might as well try to argue that the earth is flat or there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.

                                It's not even as if it is just one science that points towards a date of about 4.5 billion years...they all do...geology, geomorphology, chemistry, physics, astrophysics....the list goes on.

                                It's also worth considering that no other religion has a problem with that...not even mainstream Christianity...just the lunatic fringes of it.

                                You can't pick and choose which bits of science fit in wih your own religious beliefs. This is exactly the same science that keeps aircraft aloft makes nuclear power stations work or carries traffic across rivers on webs of steel. None of these are imaginary or just "ideas",

                                3D Figures
                                Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
                                You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

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                                • R Offline
                                  remus
                                  last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:21 PM

                                  Cornel,

                                  Science is all about testing theories to see if theyre right. Theories dont just pop out of thin air, everything starts of as an idea, although it is initially imagined that doesnt mean it will turn out to be wrong.

                                  p.s. i get the distinct feeling we've done all this before.

                                  http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                                  • K Offline
                                    kwistenbiebel
                                    last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:23 PM

                                    This one is for Stinkie and the other Dutch speaking forum members (I wish it was in English... 😞
                                    Hans Teeuwen has a somewhat distorted but funny approach on Da Bible:
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3g8_BFAPs
                                    [flash=425,344:3155fh6t]http://www.youtube.com/v/uY3g8_BFAPs&hl=en&fs=1[/flash:3155fh6t]

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                                    • S Offline
                                      Stinkie
                                      last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:25 PM

                                      a) Could anyone with a better understanding of the philosophy of science (I hope this is the correct translation of the Dutch "kennistheorie") explain to our friend Cornel what the difference between "an idea" and "a story" is? I'd want to myself, but I'm afraid I'd leave him too much room to wedge in some scripture quote. Yeah, I did skip class a lot.

                                      b) Thanks, Kwist!

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                                      • S Offline
                                        solo
                                        last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:44 PM

                                        Tomasz

                                        What you are talking about is faith, not logical faith like driving over a bridge and believing it will keep standing until you get past it based on your knowledge that the engineers are trained, the builders are inspected and that your chances of making it are pretty good. You require blind faith based on a book that has similar stories that many earlier religions had, yet it dismisses them as false and it the only truth.

                                        Do I believe in love? Yes I do it is an emotion, it also has a chemical explanation re: dopamine. Then there are many forms of love, the Greeks have great examples of such like Agape love, Eros love, etc. Lets not get love and blind devotion mixed now.

                                        Kids are expected to believe in Santa Clause the jolly red giver, they love him, trust him, believe in the whole naughty and nice crap, yet he does not exist …. Sound familiar? Get rid of dude in red suit, put in (deity of choice) add a few stories and warnings of damnation and we have …… you guessed it.

                                        http://www.solos-art.com

                                        If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                                        • C Offline
                                          cornel
                                          last edited by Oct 1, 2008, 9:46 PM

                                          Ok,
                                          I’m “persisting in some sort of ludicrous obscurantism”… 😆

                                          Remus wrote: “Science is all about testing theories to see if they’re right.”

                                          Can you, guys, verify for example Alan’s “4.5 billion years”?!! 😉

                                          Cornel

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