Pushpull on Steroids
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@unknownuser said:
My experience with Autodesk is that it drains your wallet, is utterly complex to a very frustrating level.
My experience exactly.
As with Sketchup a few years ago I am now fearful that Autodesk will buy out Spaceclaim.
Not sure if anybody noticed, they recently bought out Ecotect from Square1. When I first read the speculation about the aquisition I wondered if this would not be a very shrewd and long overdue assault by Autodesk on the Sketchup market. (While Ecotect is a powerful building analysis applications it has similar graphic output compared to Sketchup.)- Would they do the unthinkable and make ET a free release? Of course not!
They immediatly increased the pricing from about $500 (if I remember correctly £350 Sterling) to $2,499!
http://www.squ1.com/
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- Would they do the unthinkable and make ET a free release? Of course not!
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@kwistenbiebel said:
I still have rashes from using Autodesk software in the past.(not Inventor though)
My experience with Autodesk is that it drains your wallet, is utterly complex to a very frustrating level.
But maybe things got changed by now?....(Can't help to think it didn't though)My dear kwistenbiebel, I don't think any of the painfulness has yet changed, and that's exactly why i'm here in a SU forum hoping for SU 7.
They did copy the Push-pull though but the Hardware requirements are exorbitant plus they just can't make things simple; They still make you read through a "Phone book" of the size of LA to get a simple answer to an obvious task. Oh it hurts just to think about "IT"
And to make it clear for everyone else, I'd rather pick strawberry's in the hot sun with the Mexicans to make a living, then working for Auto Desk.
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When you get Inventor you get Mechanical Desktop and the ability to display this as plain old AutoCAD. Why??
Well for me, the drawing side of Inventor is a bit lacking and some drawing things I need to do can't be done in Inventor. Crazy as it might sound, on a current project (creating a special dxf file for laser cutting) it's 30% done as a macro in the Inventor drawing, 20% manual work in the Inventor drawing (because these bits can't be automated), the final 50% is by macro in Inventor passing an initial dxf to ACAD where the dxf is finalised and saved by an automatic ACAD macro. Hard work, the only saving grace being that both Inventor and ACAD use VBA for their macro's.
As for the cost of AutoDesk products, all I can say is I'm not having to pay! -
Spaceclaim installation completed quickly and easily (unlike Inventor)!!
Initial thoughts
Feels SketchUppy.
Slightly easier to move, copy, rotate edges and faces than SU.
Exceedingly quick and smooth (well I am using an M6300).
AutoDesk could really learn something from this for Inventor.
Imports Inventor files but can't export them, have to use IGES or SAT.Worth an enquiry about cost!
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Dear Peter,
I am watching your progress with interest as I too use Inventor (V11), but think SpaceClaim might be an easier modeller. Will it import Sketchup models, and can you export to Sketchup? I can export to Sketchup from Inventor (as a .sat into AutoCAD; scale x 100 and export as a .dwg; import into SU and scale 0.01), but not import models into Inventor.
Have you tried opening SpaceClaim modified Inventor models in Inventor after exporting from SpaceClaim? Presumably, one loses all the detail in the features browser. We have a site license for ALGOR, and so SpaceClaim could be useful for simplifying models prior to FEA.
Kind regards,
Bob -
My initial gut feel is that SpaceClaim is a much easier modeller for initial concept designs than Inventor. That's why I currently use SketchUp for some work.
I think that Inventor might be better once you know what you want and are doing detail modelling.
On cost
The list price for the annual lease is
SpaceClaim Professional 2008 - £995.00
3D Data Exchange - £195.00
Sheet Metal - £295.00
Total per year £1,485.0The list price for perpetual licenses is
SpaceClaim Professional 2008 - £1,500.00
Support Services for SpaceClaim Professional 2008 - £500.00
3D Data Exchange - £300.00
Support Services for 3D Data Exchange - £100.00
Sheet Metal - £450.00
Support Services for Sheet Metal - £150.00
Total first year £3,000.00
Subsequent years £750.00Edit
Programming seems to be done in C# -
Dear Peter,
Many thanks for the extra information. I know what you mean about using Sketchup with Inventor. I often start my design work using Sketchup before detailing in Inventor (the attached exploded view - all done in Sketchup -shows part of a machine). I find that my Inventor models are cleaner and better constrained if I start the design work in Sketchup.
Have you tried importing/exporting models between SpaceClaim and Inventor? If so, what are your findings? My department is rather committed to Inventor, and I have been issued Inventor 2009 to load up, (4 DVDs). I might have trouble convincing people to use SpaceClaim if I cannot make a case.
Regards,
Bob
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an idea of the price of Inventor?
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@unknownuser said:
an idea of the price of Inventor?
Varies, Inventor Series or Inventor Professional, can you screw them (you're thinking of buying SolidWorks
), say £4-5,000 per seat.@watkins said:
Dear Peter,
(the attached exploded view - all done in Sketchup -shows part of a machine). I find that my Inventor models are cleaner and better constrained if I start the design work in Sketchup.
BobBob, here's something I posted long ago done in SketchUp -
http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=1841&hilit=+mechanical -
Hey, I installed ET looked a bit around and wiped it off my HDD right away, It's just to technical, and a very boring looking interface, I could not imagine a good work flow with this one.
As for SpaceClaim, this looks much more like what i hope for Google will do in SU7, this is what I want. And the parametric dimensioning, that when one changes the numeric value the object automatically changes as well.
Then they just have to get the import and export to work for "OBJ", so that components get translated into mesh-groups.
Just hope someone from Google is actually reading this ....
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Dear Peter,
Your 'something mechanical' looks good. I missed that the first time round. I look forward to seeing more of your work, or perhaps tips and tricks you have discovered while drawing mechanical components.
One small innovation that I have found extremely useful is the use of thread textures. Using Inventor you will have noticed that that package also uses textures. It makes a great difference to model appearance and differentiates between clearance and tapped holes.
Kind regards,
Bob -
I don't normally bother as the gallery is mostly buildings. But just for you ...
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Have you heard of CoCreate? It might not be what you are looking for but it looks impressive, alledgedly easy to use and there is a free version.
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I have tried Spaceclaim a couple of hours (some months ago)just to get an idea and the 'feel' of the software.
Their 'annual' license system scares me though.
I am much more in favour of a 1 time purchase to use the software for an unlimited time, perhaps paying an extra for a new release.Buying software by subscription is a 'faux pas' to me. Not done, at least in my case.
As I would use the software as a supplement to other apps (I am not a product designer), the costs are way too high.
I can understand that for other people it might be different... -
@unknownuser said:
Have you heard of CoCreate? It might not be what you are looking for but it looks impressive, alledgedly easy to use and there is a free version.
http://www.cocreate.com/products/pe2/ModelingPE2.aspxThe free PE version doesn't do sheet metal so it's no use to me.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
I have tried Spaceclaim a couple of hours (some months ago)just to get an idea and the 'feel' of the software.
Their 'annual' license system scares me though.
I am much more in favour of a 1 time purchase to use the software for an unlimited time, perhaps paying an extra for a new release.
Buying software by subscription is a 'faux pas' to me. Not done, at least in my case.@unknownuser said:
The list price for perpetual licenses is
SpaceClaim Professional 2008 - £1,500.00
Support Services for SpaceClaim Professional 2008 - £500.00
3D Data Exchange - £300.00
Support Services for 3D Data Exchange - £100.00
Sheet Metal - £450.00
Support Services for Sheet Metal - £150.00
Total first year £3,000.00
Subsequent years £750.00That's buying isn't it?
Or is it the £750/year support that concerns you? -
@petercharles said:
Don't install a new version until the first service pack is out!
SP1 for Inventor R2009 is out!
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I want to get some programmers together and start a new "evo/revolution" of a artist cad tool. If i start today I might just beat the final release time of SU7.
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Well I guess Google could follow the example of Autocad by bowing to user pressure and releasing without adding any new features...
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Maybe yes, but the way it is presented doesn't really feel like a 1 time purchase.
"costs for the first year, costs for subsequent years" etc....
Again, maybe if the software is to be used as the core modeler in your workflow, I would understand it better.
If the software is to be used complementary to other software,I just have the feeling it will be an expensive adventure.what if one decides to go for the 1 time purchase and don't subscribe to the annual 'support' service?
You don't get assistance when you have a problem?In most cases, when you do a 1 time purchase, you get the support as a bonus, until an official update arrives, which often is free as a service or to be purchased for a smaller price for existing customers.
That 'sounds' more fair, even though in some rare cases it might result in similar costs.Maybe it is just the way the costs are described that triggers my switch.
Too many people are scared away from Autodesk products because of the subscription based system.(you know, those minor updates wrapped up as full new annual releases to pay for.)
I think people appreciate a fixed cost over a less transparent annual service.
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