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    Large Hadron Collider

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    • T Offline
      toxicvoxel
      last edited by

      Remus,
      You can take that position from the comfort of your personal circumstances.

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      • G Offline
        geh4evr
        last edited by

        Alan, I'd never thought I'd hear myself say that something on YouTube which doesn't have to do with SketchUp is actually good. 😉

        I wonder if any suicides will come out of this, It happened with Y2K, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened with LHC.

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        • C Offline
          chango70
          last edited by

          The problem of the world isn't going to be solved by pouring money that would have otherwise gone to the Collider. Thats very naive Toxic. Pouring money often made things worse.

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          • MarianM Offline
            Marian
            last edited by

            If we would have spent resources only on "real issues" we woulld stil be in the dark ages. All important discoveries contributed to both technology and society. We can't just put on hold technological development and work on social issues only, if we do that we we'll never resolve anything, people always have problems.
            And chango is right that money wouldn't have made any difference on an world scale.

            http://marian87.deviantart.com/

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            • R Offline
              Ross Macintosh
              last edited by

              If you gave me the €6.4 billion to spend I'm sure I could have done some lasting good...

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              • T Offline
                toxicvoxel
                last edited by

                Chango,Marian
                It is simmilar justification that gave us the first atomic bomb.
                If you think that this experiment will explain 'how the universe works', you are decieving yourselves.

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                • soloS Offline
                  solo
                  last edited by

                  @unknownuser said:

                  It is simmilar justification that gave us the first atomic bomb.

                  lets not forget nuclear power.

                  http://www.solos-art.com

                  If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                  • Alan FraserA Offline
                    Alan Fraser
                    last edited by

                    The money isn't an either/or thing. The US public made the same complaint about NASA's budget at the height of the space race ...yet they were spending more than that on dog food.

                    3D Figures
                    Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
                    You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

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                    • K Offline
                      kwistenbiebel
                      last edited by

                      I wonder what the real motivation is behind trying to stop these particle experiments.
                      Let's call the Chuck Norris help line.

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                      • R Offline
                        Ross Macintosh
                        last edited by

                        Chuck Norris doesn't need a particle accelerator. He is a particle accelerator!

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                        • R Offline
                          remus
                          last edited by

                          @toxicvoxel said:

                          Remus,
                          You can take that position from the comfort of your personal circumstances.

                          I'd like to think i would hold the same beliefs even if i lived in a less privileged society.

                          And just to throw some numbers out there, the LHC cost approx £5.14 billion, the NHS spends about £7 billion a year on medication and african debt is roughly £100 billion. As im sure you can see, if the LHC money was diverted to something more 'real' it would have very little lasting effect, compared to the huge advances possibe in our understanding with the LHC. Seems like a bit of a bargain really.

                          http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                          • R Offline
                            remus
                            last edited by

                            Oh, and chuck norris can just squeeze his fist closed really tightly, then sniff the results to look for higgs particles (and save the 5.14 billion quid for beer.)

                            http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                            • T Offline
                              toxicvoxel
                              last edited by

                              @unknownuser said:

                              Seems like a bit of a bargain really

                              Remus,
                              I am very interested to know what the 'possible huge advances' are that you are talking about.
                              I challenge you explain in to us in technical detail what these benefits could be, seeing that you have quantified the yield of these in terms of the investment.

                              Go on, convince me that you understand the underlying scientific issues that you so confidently support.

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                              • W Offline
                                watkins
                                last edited by

                                In respect of investment and return, one should not forget that the World Wide Web started at CERN.

                                Link Preview Image
                                Tim Berners-Lee - Wikipedia

                                favicon

                                (en.wikipedia.org)

                                Collecting good minds together around a big project always yields long term results. This Forum is a good example.

                                The billions spent have gone into salaries, commerce, development, education and training, and not least of all the design and implementation of better and more efficient superconducting magnets. The spin-off of such developments could be huge for the power generation and distribution industries who cannot or won't invest in the necessary R&D.

                                Someone mentioned dog food? I think the UK alone spends over 1 billion a year on their pets. Personally, I would prefer to see that money going towards conserving endangered species, but that's not going to happen, is it. Three billion (?) on a new collider sounds good to me.

                                Regards,
                                Bob

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                                • Alan FraserA Offline
                                  Alan Fraser
                                  last edited by

                                  Well, it's been running for 30 minutes and I'm still here. 😄

                                  Actually, the benefits from this could be tremendous...we just have no idea what they might be at this point. The whole particle physics thing is at the very core of much high-end technology from the radio valve onwards. Without this seemingly esoteric research we simply wouldn't have stuff like transistors, microchips, scanners etc.
                                  I'll bet that the investment isn't that much different proportionally from what was being sunk into Oak Ridge and Los Alamos in WWII. If people had known about that, they'd probably have thought the money would be better spent on bombers or aircraft carriers.

                                  3D Figures
                                  Were you required to walk 500 miles? Were you advised to walk 500 more?
                                  You could be entitled to compensation. Call the Pro Claimers now!

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                                  • T Offline
                                    toxicvoxel
                                    last edited by

                                    Circumstantial evidence gentlemen. Demonstrate to me that you have a technical understanding of what is going on today.
                                    Or are you supporting an idea that you do not understand?

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                                    • R Offline
                                      remus
                                      last edited by

                                      I fully admit that i dont have a technical understanding of the inner workings of the project, and i think youd be hard pushed to find more than a few thousand people who could give you the ins and outs of the LHC.

                                      Enough people who actually understand the subject seem to think its a damm good idea, thats enough to convince me.

                                      p.s. i could give you a rough overview of how it works, if thats enough to satisfy you.

                                      http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                                      • M Offline
                                        Mr S
                                        last edited by

                                        Hi,

                                        Alan, thanks for that link to the video.
                                        That has to be the one and only time I have enjoyed listening to rap "music".

                                        I liked this comment that appeared there as well:

                                        @unknownuser said:

                                        I love hearing from Creationists who do not believe in the Big Bang warning us ,about creating ANOTHER Big Bang

                                        I also prefer my money being spent on this type of scientific research which hopefully helps extend mankinds knowledge of who and what we are.
                                        A far better investment better than all the billions given in foreign aid to corrupt regimes.

                                        Regards
                                        Mr S

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                                        • K Offline
                                          kwistenbiebel
                                          last edited by

                                          Newsflash:
                                          The LHC of Geneva, Switserland has just been started for tests (wednesday 9.30 am CET).
                                          No incidents or black holes been spotted yet.The LHC will be at its full capacity somewhere in october. (source: Belgian newspaper website "De Morgen.be" 10 september)

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                                          • MarianM Offline
                                            Marian
                                            last edited by

                                            If you are still talking about money and hope to stop the issue here, the US military spends hundreds of billions of dollars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States. In light of recent events please tell me that that money is used wisely. Tell them to divert a few billion to education, medical care which i'm sure does't have budgets of such magnitude, there's your real world problems, not important scientific research which in the long run can help us create the wonderful things we dream of, no world hunger,no poverty, flying cars, space exploration etc, etc.

                                            Another end of the world averted, now we still have to look forward to 2012 and the comming of the planet Nibiru with the Anunaki...and probably a few more dozens of end of the world theories.

                                            http://marian87.deviantart.com/

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