Roman Theatre in Cartagena (Spain) Work in progress
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Yes there is a difference in the Greek Ionic and the Italian one (I mean the Roman interpretation of the classical Ionic order).
The problem in English language that they only have one word for this - "Ionic" (derivation of the Latin "Ionica") - which in Vitruvian use only refers to the Italian one.
The main dufference is that while the Greek loooks really like a scroll (so it it symmetrical from two sides and then another symmetry applies to the other two sides), the Italian is symmetrical from all 4 sides (has the shape of the abacus something like that of your Corinthian capital and the volutae torn in a bend to form similar scroll on the corners).
This was implemented by the Romans after the Greeks, too, however because on the corners of the temples the Greeks had to "cheat" as well. Now the Romans used these +cheated corners" for all 4 corners of their capitals and this way they can ba all alike.
But too many words - I should just make a couple of sketches instead...
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Due to my deep knowledge of Shakespeare's language, and to my superb capacity of comprehension... I haven't understood a single word, Gaieus
Yes, I believe that you are telling me that the greek Ionic is different from the roman Ionic, the roman one has a more elaborated capital. And I believe that I have seen that difference on the net (I can't remember where).
But this January I am going to have a lot of work, and all the big progress that you have seen this week is going to be slowed
So, be patient, please. The first thing I have to do is to investigate the famous single and eroded fragment of Ionic capital found in the area of the "Porticus in summa gradatione" in the roman theatre in Cartagena.
I am mixing latin with english and my brain is going to explode
So, be patient, please
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@unknownuser said:
I am mixing latin with english and my brain is going to explode
Never mind, I know some Latin and at least I understand what you are writing.
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A vandal has appeared in the roman theatre of Cartago Nova.
Members of the Legion are looking for this person. Graffitis are being cleaned at this moment. At least you can see the actual situation of the construction of the theatre.
Signed:
Pichunekus Maximus, Praetor.
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Hehe... That's Brian's Life... (Life of Brian???)
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I can inform you that we have a suspected of commiting this:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8
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Yesss!
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A New theory for a secondary use of the Frons Scaenae in Roman Theatres has been developed by Dr. Moebius Co&Jones:
(it's a joke for the spanish forums that perhaps you are not going to understand, the buildings sourrunding the roman theatre have a lot of this "esthetic" element and it's my idea of fighting against this "contrast" 
)And I began the basilicae. To make work the columns in its proper way, I had to stretch part of the wall. It's a sollution I seen in Medina Azahara, (an arabian palace in Spain), but I don't know if Romans did it. Perhaps I should build walls thinner. Anyway is a part of the theatre with few elements known. Even the Ionic style is not known, I chose it because I had a ionic capital without use. The half columns may be wrong... I don't know.
I need orientation of an archeologist about that, as the people in the spanish forums have no idea (Gaieus...
)
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I don't understand what you mean by "stretching" the walls, sorry. Also pictures with lines shown would be better for it is a bit hard to see the details without them.
From what was found (I guess at least the foundations) you should be able to tell the thickness of the walls. But use the same thickness all the way up (the Romans did not change it as they were advancing upwards) if that is your problem. If the problem is the transition between the Ionic capitals and the arches, you can use abaci for that (that is the "regular" way - also they usually used something that resembles the architrave and the friese crowned by a cornice).
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You don't understand me because I insist that my english is limited, sorry for that.
I will make a thinner wall to fix it, thanks for your help (It is going to give me a headache, as I have to make a new "half column component", I believe)
As I am too perfectionist, I am studying now the volumes inside the basilica to figure how it was, just with the few ruins we have. And I believe that I have an idea.
I don't know if the Basilica, inside it, had naked stone or there was any kind of paintings. I am thinking in the future, when I apply textures to it.
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Gaieus, the problem is fixed.
And probably, the people won't see the work I have done, but I have enjoyed a lot. I have designed a possible distribution of the floors and stairs. Well, I haven't made the stairs (the empty rooms without floor at the right), as it is a lot of work. But at this moment I have a good guide to put the windows. And I have explained my self how the basilicae worked.
Anyway, I think that the room at the ground floor may have paintings. If you give me your opinion, It would be very usefull for me.
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The half column seems odd. I have never seen one used like that-maybe in postmodernism. But I am no expert-the Romans did many kind of things with their orders.
Anssi
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Well, there are some occult walls, so you can't see the half column perfectly.
And I have to fix the base of the columns, is half done.
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Well, in a prestigeous building you may well expect some decoration on the walls. It can be either painting or some marble decoration like in this basilica in Enna, Sicily. (I wouldn't put mosaic on the walls though).
Anyway, there must have remained some remnants (even the smallest fragments) of any kind of decoration which could give you a clue what to put on the walls.As for half columns and the Romans - they did use them when putting them against the walls like with the so called Maison Carrée in Nimes:
It would be quite logical to put them there to "finish" or "enclose" the framing of the entrance.
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Gaieus: In fact, I visited le "Maison Carrée" 10 years ago
And there are rests of half columns "enclosing" the entrance in the Basilicae.
(Bottom left).
The roman theatre of cartagena was very well preserved but very "crushed". As you see in the photo you can imagine that no remnants of paintings have been found. But I see that there is a "fog" of secrecy and it will last untill the new Moneo's Museum opens in 1 or 2 months. Perhaps we may know something about it in the future.
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Just a fast link of a image:
http://i30.tinypic.com/wqv7uu.jpg
It's a "Beta" of the full model in Google Earth. It's made in a fast way, there is a lot of work to do yet.
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did you upload this model to the 3d warehouse?
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Right now the model has a lot of mistakes and must be rebuilt in some places, so it is not uploaded. For example the inma and media cavea are bigger than the ruins of the real theatre (my model has a smaller orchestra). And I have to work on some textures.I am waiting for the new museum to be opened, a lot of information will allow me to improve the model a bit more.
At this moment the skp filesize is 8.5 mb, but the kmz file size is 34,8 mb, so I can't upload it to Google Earth.
Anyway, you can see the model with the kmz file in my personal Google Earth (beta 4.3) here:
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Small update:
The spanish (I believe latin) name is "Ara". It was found in the excavations.
You have a render here (the letters are too bright, sorry):
And you can rotate the model here:
http://pichuneke.googlepages.com/AraPaetus5_index.html
(You know, that plugin to export the views to web).
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