Sign for Peace in Palestine UPDATE!
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@rv1974 said:
if you taking this KGB-ist crap seriously you'd probably enjoy this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N27YksJDJIWhy? Sorry, I only watched the beginning of your video... but if it is some Korean propaganda video, i think it is intending the same brain washing we are getting from our western media - just on a much simpler level. ...it's on TV - it must be real!
And which KGB crap? Regarding all these strange incidents and coincidences that doesn't add up?
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Well the ceasefire looks that it will go on for another 24 hours. Hopefully the talks will bare some fruit, I'll remain optimistic and hopeful.
A good assessment of the situation here,
Israel-Gaza conflict: Ceasefire extended 24 hours
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-conflict-ceasefire-extended-24-hours-1.2739336
The more I see religious fanatics of all shades the more disgusted I become with organised religion in general. I hope these fanatics will realise sooner rather than later that they are being used by the power brokers that have only one 'religion', control through money. -
Unfortunately it looks like the peace talks did not deliver any glimmer of hope. Its back to business for Hamas and Israel and rockets and bombs already flying and families being murdered.
Desmond Tutu's article in Haaretz, Israel's oldest daily newspaper, is well worth reading.
My plea to the people of Israel: Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.610687It says,
Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, in an exclusive article for Haaretz, calls for a global boycott of Israel and urges Israelis and Palestinians to look beyond their leaders for a sustainable solution to the crisis in the Holy Land.
Many Israelis and Jews around the world have much the same feelings as Desmond Tutu but it looks that the hardliners are intent on genocide and land acquisition.
Hopefully the social media will stay on this and keep pushing until Israel's leaders pick up on the simple message of 'Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine'.
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Thats how its done. Non violent but stern protest by ordinary folks. Its happening in many parts of the world and it will work in time. It was a major contributing factor to the lifting of apartheid in SA.
I also see a new anti-central bank (Fed et al ) movement developing in Germany. Mostly young people that have gone though the trouble of learning about and understanding how the crooked financial system works. I can see it spreading quickly.
A major worry of mine is that the power brokers will try to control the Net but again that's easier said than done .... hopefully.
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Genocide mumbo jumbo!
Look up what the word means before you use it so freely. If Israel were into genocide The Palestinians would be long gone, a long long time ago.The article below, might help you understand at least one little part of the story, or maybe you'll get an idea of why you think Israel is so evil, when it really isn't so bad.
I live here, knowing it is one of the most wonderful free and democratic countries in the world. I see it. I feel it. I live it. I live among Arab Israelis. I pay my rent to an Arab family. I have good Arab friends. The story in this country is so much more complicated than what you guys can imagine. So spare the blind hatred without knowing the full story. Come to this country... visit it. See it with your own eyes, take a tour... Maybe even live here for a while! maybe... you'll understand a little about the situation more than what the international media agencies spoon feed you their one sided stories with a clear and boring narrative, and maybe you'll understand that there is no simple solution to the problems here. I wish it were simple... If it were, it would have been done a long time ago.
There may be some similarities between the problems here and what was between northern Ireland and England, but yet it is soooo different. The Islamic hatred is a whole other cup O'tea. Just look at what's happening in Syria and Iraq now, beheadings, killings in the name of some imaginary friend.
Imagine people with that kind of mentality and brutality, knocking on your door with mortar shells every day of the week for years... And nothing being done about it.
If it would have happened to you, be it in England or Ireland or where ever in Europe, the imaginary genocide you so freely speak of, would have been long been done, but not by Jews or Israelis... but rather by...It hurts to see the blind sightedness of highly intelligent people here.
Read these two articles... maybe they will shed some light on something.-
An Insider’s Guide to the Most Important Story on Earth
A former AP correspondent explains how and why reporters get Israel so wrong, and why it matters.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/183033/israel-insider-guide?all=1 -
Why Don’t I Criticize Israel?
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel?utm_source=Newsletter+subscribers%26amp;utm_campaign=7e5060b69b-JTA_Daily_Briefing_7_29_2014%26amp;utm_medium=email%26amp;utm_term=0_2dce5bc6f8-7e5060b69b-26838273
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Will most likely kick myself later, as I really should know better, but here goes anyway,
First, I am a huge Sam Harris fan – have every one of his books- even though I do often find his hawkish almost watered down Pam Geller ”ish” islamophobia a tad tedious -not to mention his constant support of all things Dershowitz somewhat mystifying, yet understandable as Sam was at Harvard at the same time.
Secondly , I agree that the term genocide is overused in these discussions, is misused and of inappropriate usage.
So, lets break down and scrutinize just a few of the litany of Sam's comments.
Quote SH “What would the Jews do to the Palestinians if they could do anything they wanted?”.........
The implication being that Israel is all powerful and could easily smite the Gazans if it so wished yet it takes the “utmost care” to do as little harm as possible.
We don't condone the actions of South Africa during the apartheid era or of British rule during its time In India . They too did not wipe out the people they were oppressing- yet we do not condone and should not condone abhorrent acts of the oppressors. Here Israel is no different IMO.
Quote SH “The truth is that everything you need to know about the moral imbalance between Israel and her enemies can be understood on the topic of human shields. Who uses human shields? …....
The IDF has also shamefully used Gazan's as human shields and to the best of my knowledge not one IDF soldier has been imprisoned for these illegal acts (war crimes) Sam makes no mention of this even though I”m sure it is well known to him. To expect an improvised army such as Hamas has to stand out from the civilian crowd is simply not possible in such a squalidly tight space. No mater the “Higher scale of Israel's Moral authority” as Sam cites it, This in no way should condone the continued occupation & disproportionately heavy handed shelling,(Dahiya doctrine) that has become the norm.
In the end only when Israel can offer something that is quantifiably a better than "a shitty deal" will there be peace in the region. I have no doubt that Gazans want to live in peace juts as much as their Israeli cousins.
Perhaps the maxim that “if one stops treating people as animals they will stop behaving as animals” can one day come true. I certainly hope so, for everyone’s sake.
Sam, also equates Hamas to ISIS or Al-Qaeda. This is simply untrue. They re all abhorrent, but hardly on the same scale of evil. What did Israel get from its dealings with the PA? Nothing but land grabs and a worse enermy to deal with . Hopefully Israel will not have to face something worse than Hamas, but if history has any lesson, its very likely.
I agree with you Israel has a head and shoulder standing above its neighbours when it comes to “Democracy”. Like every democratic country it too faces democratic problems. Just witness the development of Sahonium Detention facility a few kilometers from Um Al Hitan in the Negev.
These developments by Isreali extremists (Shas party) surly do not make for what a democracy should be and do not bode well for the future.
Lastly the idea that “the international media agencies spoon feed you their one sided stories with a clear and boring narrative” is also well narrated in the Israeli press by such notable and worthy journalists like Amira Hass & Gideon Levy not to mention The human rights groups in Israel like Bet' Selem and others, who daily work at providing a less jaundiced look at what is really going on in the area.
Hope this finds you in good spirits, I wish you and all your loved ones all the best for the future as well as all your Not -so- distant- cousins (Gazans)
Shalom,
Rashad
A nuanced conversation between Sam Harris and andrew sullivan well worthy of anyone’s time.
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/08/14/gazing-at-gaza-a-conversation-with-sam-harris/
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@halroach said:
Genocide mumbo jumbo!
Moshe Feiglin the Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset looks to be calling for concentration camps in Gaza in his action plan to defeat Hamas.
Here is his plan,*a) The IDF [Israeli army] shall designate certain open areas on the Sinai border, adjacent to the sea, in which the civilian population will be concentrated, far from the built-up areas that are used for launches and tunneling. In these areas, tent encampments will be established, until relevant emigration destinations are determined. The supply of electricity and water to the formerly populated areas will be disconnected.
b) The formerly populated areas will be shelled with maximum fire power. The entire civilian and military infrastructure of Hamas, its means of communication and of logistics, will be destroyed entirely, down to their foundations.
c) The IDF will divide the Gaza Strip laterally and crosswise, significantly expand the corridors, occupy commanding positions, and exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain.*
Moshe's plan sure sound genocidal to me! What Mr Feiglin does not realise is that Hamas would probably not exist at it current level without considerable support from Gazan residents. The rise of Hamas, like the rise of the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland was a symptom of evils being carried out. No evils, no revengers!
Desmond Tutu's message, 'Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine' is the only way for lasting peace in the area. A State of Palestine is the only answer. It will take a strong and courageous Israeli leader to go down this road and I don't thing the current leadership are of this caliber. I wish I was wrong.
If the Palestinians were to get their own state of a reasonable size or even some initial power-sharing arrangement that would lead to full statehood, I think support for Hamas would decline or better still they would see sense and go the political route.
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Israel Announces Massive West Bank Land Grab
JERUSALEM, Aug 31 (Reuters) - Israel announced on Sunday a land appropriation in the occupied West Bank that an anti-settlement group termed the biggest in 30 years, drawing Palestinian condemnation and a U.S. rebuke. By Jeffrey Heller
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/31/israel-west-bank_n_5745498.html..... and so it goes on and on and on and on !!!!!!
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@halroach said:
So spare the blind hatred without knowing the full story.
Criticizing a country for shelling an extremely densely populated area like Gaza doesn't amount to 'blind hatred' in my book.
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Yehonatan,
Thank you for adding your views. I really appreciate your involvement as you obviously have experience from living in the area.
I would appreciate if you could further clarify a few of your points as I want to understand where you are coming from.
@halroach said:
Genocide mumbo jumbo!
Look up what the word means before you use it so freely. If Israel were into genocide The Palestinians would be long gone, a long long time ago.Well, I will agree to differ with you on the definition of genocide.
@halroach said:
The article below, might help you understand at least one little part of the story, or maybe you'll get an idea of why you think Israel is so evil, when it really isn't so bad.
For many years (55+) I supported the establishment of Israel but I also wanted to see a Palestinian state established. It is only in recent years that I have become very disappoint with Israel. I do not hate Israel just feel very critical of its leaders / government.
@halroach said:
I live here, knowing it is one of the most wonderful free and democratic countries in the world. I see it. I feel it. I live it. I live among Arab Israelis. I pay my rent to an Arab family. I have good Arab friends. The story in this country is so much more complicated than what you guys can imagine. So spare the blind hatred without knowing the full story. Come to this country... visit it. See it with your own eyes, take a tour... Maybe even live here for a while! maybe... you'll understand a little about the situation more than what the international media agencies spoon feed you their one sided stories with a clear and boring narrative, and maybe you'll understand that there is no simple solution to the problems here. I wish it were simple... If it were, it would have been done a long time ago.
It looks that you have a very comfortable and enjoyable life. I am glad for you. You are a young educated man with many Arab friends. I imagine your Arab friends have possibly friends / family / relatives in Gaza and The West Bank. Maybe I am wrong but I will make this assumption.
My question is, would it be possible for young educated people living in Israel to reach out to young people in Gaza and The West Bank? Even if was done in just a small way it could grow and lead to peace.
@halroach said:
There may be some similarities between the problems here and what was between northern Ireland and England, but yet it is soooo different. The Islamic hatred is a whole other cup O'tea. Just look at what's happening in Syria and Iraq now, beheadings, killings in the name of some imaginary friend.
Imagine people with that kind of mentality and brutality, knocking on your door with mortar shells every day of the week for years... And nothing being done about it.
If it would have happened to you, be it in England or Ireland or where ever in Europe, the imaginary genocide you so freely speak of, would have been long been done, but not by Jews or Israelis... but rather by...
I have to disagree with you that the Northern Ireland "Troubles" (as they are referred to) are totally different from the Palestinian / Israeli conflict. There are so many similarities.
The IRA grew because of Bloody Sunday http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972 If the British Government had entered into talks at this time the IRA would not have grown to become what it did and a lot of Irish and English people would not have lost their lives in the following years. All parties talked eventually and we now have peace and power sharing.
As regards what is happening in Syria and Iraq goes. I think the list of counties could be extended to include many others. Conflict will go on as long as we (ordinary people) allow 'the powers that be' run the show.
Just referring to the Northern Ireland Troubles again for a point. Small Peace Groups started by wives and mothers played a major part in getting the warring factions to sit down and have peace talks. 'Women for Peace' was started by Mairéad Corrigan Betty Williams and Ciaran McKeown and it became very influential in bringing about peace.
@halroach said:
It hurts to see the blind sightedness of highly intelligent people here.
I don't regard myself as highly intelligent just an ordinary person that finds in difficult to accept what is happening in Israel, The West Bank and Gaza. Rather than being blind sighted I think its more a case of disappointment in Israel, the far more advanced country, which could take the lead in the area and set an example to others.
Desmond Tutu has offered the peace formula, Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine
Mike
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