Component moving not precise

davidwetzel80

Here is the SKP. file. I also put the two components together. This is driving me crazy.

davidwetzel80

@jean lemire said:

Hi folks.

See this SU file for ideas.

H Jean,

Thanks for taking the time to solve my problem. I did your tutorial step by step. However I'm ending up with the same results. While I was in your tutorial I zoomed into your connected groups and they were fine! Everything was touching as I wanted. But when I try it on my machine it's a different story.

problem skp.skp

davidwetzel80

@unknownuser said:

@honoluludesktop said:

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

wait, what? your advice is to use autocad if you want to move a component because sketchup can't do it?

@davidwetzel80 said:

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

when posting, look below the reply window and you'll see "Upload Attachment".. click that then click "choose file".. navigate to the file on your disk then either click 'add the file' or simply submit..

.skp files can be uploaded directly to this forum so no need to zip them first.. (pretty sure there's a 4MB limit on the file size)

Thanks Jeff, I attached the file successfully.

mac1

@davidwetzel80 said:

@unknownuser said:

@honoluludesktop said:

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

wait, what? your advice is to use autocad if you want to move a component because sketchup can't do it?

@davidwetzel80 said:

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

when posting, look below the reply window and you'll see "Upload Attachment".. click that then click "choose file".. navigate to the file on your disk then either click 'add the file' or simply submit..

.skp files can be uploaded directly to this forum so no need to zip them first.. (pretty sure there's a 4MB limit on the file size)

Thanks Jeff, I attached the file successfully.

Quick look
Delete your pentagon and draw a new one at any radius then use the tape tool to measure one side then enter your 4' and re-scale it to that value. I could not confirm your measurement and all sides of the pentagon are not the same and trying to scale your original will not work

mac1

@mac1 said:

@davidwetzel80 said:

@unknownuser said:

@honoluludesktop said:

David, SU is a fairly easy 3d cad application to use for simple models, but there are tons of stuff that Acad can do that SU can not. Approach your tasks by integrating the best of both.

wait, what? your advice is to use autocad if you want to move a component because sketchup can't do it?

@davidwetzel80 said:

I wanted to attach the model but I'm not sure how to post the file to this message. Can you tell me how?

when posting, look below the reply window and you'll see "Upload Attachment".. click that then click "choose file".. navigate to the file on your disk then either click 'add the file' or simply submit..

.skp files can be uploaded directly to this forum so no need to zip them first.. (pretty sure there's a 4MB limit on the file size)

Thanks Jeff, I attached the file successfully.

Quick look
Delete your pentagon and draw a new one at any radius then use the tape tool to measure one side then enter your 4' and re-scale it to that value. I could not confirm your measurement and all sides of the pentagon are not the same and trying to scale your original will not work

Update
Explode the pentagon and then the curve and turn on end point in the styles menu and you will see multiple line segments at the corner which then gives different snap points. If you look carefully with the tape tool you will see the smae artifact. It does not show for the hexagon

Jean Lemire

Hi David, hi folks.

See you file with some comments.

problem skp.skp

jeff hammond

i saw that as well in the .skp (the extra endpoints) but i'm pretty sure that's nothing to do with what david is seeing..

i made this video showing the concern.. if you have your camera set to parallel project or perspective with a very narrow FOV then you can zoom way in without clipping.. in this video, i'm zooming so far in that i can't even draw a line .000001" and have it fit in the su window..
at that point, you'll see that the two components appear to not touch.. i then explode the two components and you'll see that they are in fact joined and coplanar..

i dunno, i've never seen this behavior before but i assume it's something to do with the two objects being grouped and SU attempting to show the lines shared by both groups.. i'd like to recommend just not to worry about it and the joint is happening but i can understand david's concern and reluctance to accept that..

[flash=660,405:37kbigqg]http://www.youtube.com/v/QVIGto2DhjI?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1[/flash:37kbigqg]

maybe someone can explain it a bit better than 'don't worry about it'

mac1

good pick up Jeff, I tried several things but still same result;
Accel off
Explode one ngon
enabled snapping

Wo3Dan

Hi David, at first I thought your problem was due to base endpoints in both groups being so close, in red direction. So moving the pentagon by grabbing its base endpoint could result in grabbing it by an inferencing point of the other group.
At start endpoints differ 0.008346' in red direction. They still do after placing the pentagon "on" the top edge of the hexagon.
Remedy would be to first move the pentagon more to the side and only then snap it to the hexagons enpoint. No exploding needed.

Jean's remarks are a good catch too. Those extra enpoints may lead to problems at some point.

But if it are realy talking about enpoints in different groups that aren't exactly overlapping..... well, Jeff is right. You are talking about macro level.
See attached file I did some ime ago. In Scene2 try to connect a wireframe corner (top rectangle) to the top construction point with the line tool. All sides will jump to that point. Don't be bothered by this. I think you can still rely on SU's accuracy.

SU_on_Macro_level.skp

TaffGoch

Jeff is quite correct, in his assessment. You are seeing the effects of "super" micro zooming, where you are at your (and SketchUp's) limit of precision (0.000001)

The points do, actually, share the same endpoint coordinates, but the display of the points don't correspond. This has to do with the order that SketchUp draws the entities. Since you have two groups/components, one gets drawn, then the other. If you had drawn a pentagon, then drawn the hexagon (with no grouping,) the entities would be "connected," and will be drawn, subseqently, adjacent line-after-line, employing the same screen/display location for the shared endpoints.

To demonstrate that this is a display issue, only, you can explode the two, leaving only lines and faces. Do the extreme zoom, and you'll see what appears to be "healing" of the endpoints. Zoom back out, and make the existing (connected) entities into two groups (each face and it's bounding edges.) Extreme zoom-in, again, and you see the "errors" have reappeared.

So, it's not an error in coordinates or precision, it's merely a display issue, when zoomed-in at the limits of precision. (You will note that, at extreme zoom-in, you often can not select any entities, either.)

I can replicate very precise icosahedron/dodecahedron faces/edges, as components, and perform precise rotations, too. I just don't expect them to be accurate to more-than 6 decimals. That said, I've found precision to be excellent, and reproducible, from 1-to-6 decimals.

Other users will confirm that SketchUp can exhibit odd behavior at extremely-small scales. I file this issue under the same category.

-Taff

Krayon

Hi,

First... Sorry but i don't speak english very well ! (or... i must say i don't speak english at all !!!!)

When you move one object over another object (the 2 object corners are touching each other) , for exemple, you move a cube#1, selecting a corner and you drop it (move it) until the corner is touching a corner from cube#2, there is no problem... You can zoom at maximum, the 2 corner of the cubes are always at the same point (same place).

Now you repeat the same operation but before you move the cube, you make a group (or component) with each cube... You can move cube#1 (corner from cube#1) on the cube#2 (corner from cube#2) selecting "end of component" or "end of group" to snap... but when you make a zoom at maximum, you see that the 2 corners are not at the same place !!!! The difference is very very small... but you see that the 2 corners are'nt in a same location. I have search for a long time because this "detail" is for me not acceptable...

But... now if you explode the two group (after you have move them) and after that you zoom at the maximum, the 2 corners are NOW in the exact and same location...

Conclusion : when you work with component or group, visually Sketchup can't display the object at the right place... The object (group or component) are in the right place but when you make a big zoom, Sketchup cannot display them correctly...

Sorry... I hope you understand what i mean...