BP - A hatchet job
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Hatchet Job? So the administration isn't being fair to the international conglomerate that has lied / misled / displayed incompetency since the begining of this monumental disaster. All while defending their intent to pay a large dividend to share holders to try and maintain their stock value. By no means do I intend to support the administration - but BP is and should be on the hook here. The firms working the Deepwater Horizon should be held accountable as well - they were all partners in getting to this point. BP though is front and center as they were the ones responsible fo the well field in the first place. They were the ones who stood in front of the cameras and claimed it was only this small amount originally.......wellll maybe it's about 5 times that amount.......no wait a minute - it's actually about 10-20X what we first said. Their responses are slow and less than effective. When they finally get to "shooting the mud" - we hear that things went OK - but will take longer because we don't have enough mud. Then later when they install the containment system - it's Hooray - we are capturing a big portion of the plume and pumping it to our surface recovery ships......well maybe it's a little less than half of what is flowing, and well we can't really handle any more volume than that with the recovery ships we have in place. All signs of a very competent response.
Meanwhile we are approaching 2 months of flow generating what will undoubtedly be one of the worst environmental disasters the earth has seen. And while americans in the gulf region that are deeply impacted by the disaster are frustrated by the lack of anyone able to help, including the government - they want somebody to DO SOMETHING. The military is the first option we turn to because after Katrina we know the Fed govt. agencies can't get out of their own way let alone mount any type of effective response to anything even approaching the magnitude of this disaster. It is knee jerk to some extent, and as far as being hypocritical - hell yeah we are - so what? That net cast far and wide around the globe on many different levels. And while we americans argue here about what the administration should or shouldn't be doing - I for one have no issue with their approach to BP. And no - I won't be losing sleep at night worrying about their stock price, or if the Chinese will take them over at some point.
End of counter-rant
Dean -
Do you remember Baghdad Bob, Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf, who insisted, "Don't believe them, they are nowhere near Baghdad" while Coalition tanks rolled by in the background?" We all laughed at him then, but he seems to be becoming the new standard.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/06/10/baghdad-bp/
Seems to me BP is doing a hatchet job on themselves well enough.
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Dear bytor,
Were you, or the American people, equally outraged when an American company killed tens of thousands of innocent people, and permanently injured tens of thousands more at Bhopal, India? Your concern, as a people, was completely lacking! Bhopal continues to be an absolute disgrace, and an example of corporate America (and justice) at its worst. Handing everything over to the Indian government was a perfect piece of administrative side stepping. It was a problem caused by an American company, and America should have been the one to fix it. By way of contrast, BP has publicly stated that it will meet all clean up costs, and compensate those that need compensating.
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Bhopal,_India
The section entitled 'Aftermath' makes for very interesting reading.
As I said before, BP is an international company, which means it has many American oil engineers working the problem too. Working at 5000 feet is not trivial, and yes, they might have been a bit slow off the mark, and yes, they might have gone for 'traditional solutions' over a more radical approach, but you cannot convince me that they haven't wanted to fix the problem and fix it fast. It is costing them a great deal, and those needing compensation won't get it if BP goes to the wall. It is in America's interest that BP stay a strong company, and while you're at it, you might want to think about your pension fund too as you can be sure that the fund manager has invested in BP.
I remember vividly the almost riot situation in America when the cost of petrol doubled for a while. People were shooting each other at the pumps. Only in America! A country that consumes almost 3 times more oil per day than any other country in the world cannot claim the moral high ground.
Oh, I do like a good discussion, and a bit of a rant!
Bob
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Imagine if all the money that will be paid out on this disaster was used to find alternative energy solutions, I'd predict that the billions and billions would yield a solution to carbon based fuels.
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Nicely put Modelhead, and nicely put Solo.
We just have to learn from our mistakes and not get all nationalistic. This is the sort of shit that ought to stop as it just doesn't help (from the Guardian on Wednesday http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jun/09/battle-bring-bp-account-oil-spill).
"Earlier this week Democratic congressman Anthony Weiner showed how little respect many on Capitol Hill have for BP. He told TV viewers that the company was essentially lying about the disaster: "Whenever you hear someone with a British accent talking about this on behalf of British Petroleum they are not telling you the truth. That's the bottom-line," Weiner said"
Bob
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Tell me again,how many Americans have died as a result of the oil spill (not the explosion).
Worthwhile comparing their attitude on their back yard environmental pollution to death and destruction on the other side of the globe..... -
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Frankly, I don't think many Americans even know that "BP" stands for British Petroleum. Anyone that makes an anti-Brit based on BP's origins statement is a short-sighted nationalistic fool, and certainly has no a selective memory of the damages done by US companies - economically and environmentally.
So as Bob just said, how about we keep from pointing fingers at countries, otherwise we might as well argue about De Beers' blood diamonds, Chocolate and child labor, or any number of other destructive capitalist policies.
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Hmmm
De Beers you say, well like BP they are supplying to a need, and like gas, the USA are the hungriest for diamonds (China looks to be catching however), if you don't want blood diamonds then stop buying them, the same logic for drugs.
I am appalled at our governments treatment of BP, silly things we do in an election year.
There are three huge companies involved here, why not point fingers at all? IMO Halliburton is the guilty party. -
Dear Solo,
There are Wiki entries on both Halliburton and Transocean. Didn't realise how much Halliburton was tied into the US military and past administrations. I believe that Halliburton did the cementing at the well-head.
From the Wiki entry on Transocean
"On April 21, 2010, a fire was reported on a Transocean-owned semisubmersible drilling rig, Deepwater Horizon, made by Hyundai Heavy Industries in Ulsan, South Korea. Deepwater Horizon was a Reading & Bates Falcon RBS8D design, a firm that was acquired by Transocean in 2001."
There are also Wiki entries for Deepwater_Horizon, and well blowout, with the later giving a list of notable off-shore well blowouts (where do people find the time to write this stuff)
I find the following extract from this website very telling (http://www.eoearth.org/article/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill)
"Questions about Blowout Preventers
The Deepwater Horizon blowout preventer (BOP) was not equipped with a remote control shut-off failsafe switch required in two other major oil-producing nations as last-resort protection against underwater spills. Both Norway and Brazil require such a device, which costs about $500,000. U.S. Federal regulators had specifically exempted the Deepwater Horizon from having such a remote shut-off switch partially on the grounds of the costliness of the device (less than one percent of the Deepwater Horizon capital cost).
The failure of the BOP was foreshadowed by a 2003 paper by Deepwater Horizon owner Transocean that highlighted problems with hydraulic components of BOP control systems across the industry and suggested equipment was being rushed into the field with limited testing. Other studies had noted that a part of the BOP called a shear ram —the last line of defense that is intended to cut and close a drill pipe when all else fails — can't always slice through the thick pipe used in deepwater drilling. A 2004 study commissioned by federal regulators found that only three of 14 newly built rigs had shears powerful enough to cut through pipe at the equipment's maximum water depth.
In 2001, the U.S. Minerals Management Service proposed rules that would have required emergency backup control systems on BOP systems. The proposed rules were not yet law at the time of the Deepwater Horizon accident."
Regards.
Bob -
Hi all,
have you seen this ?
what do you think ?YouTube - Gulf Oil Spill-Gutsy Solution Restores Environment in Just Six Weeks
[flash=480,385:193mbano]http://www.youtube.com/v/8VfypUzx1tI&hl=es_ES&fs=1[/flash:193mbano] -
I guess it must be an artifial microbe as far as they have got.
But it looks like nice and clean the idea, and best of ALL, BEST, is that it has been proven to have succeed years ago in MĂ©xico ?.
I had no idea it existed already. -
@solo said:
Hmmm
De Beers you say, well like BP they are supplying to a need, and like gas, the USA are the hungriest for diamonds (China looks to be catching however), if you don't want blood diamonds then stop buying them, the same logic for drugs.
I am appalled at our governments treatment of BP, silly things we do in an election year.
There are three huge companies involved here, why not point fingers at all? IMO Halliburton is the guilty party.Solo
You seem to have a hard-on for Halliburton. Did they not pay you?
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@solo said:
Hmmm
De Beers you say, well like BP they are supplying to a need, and like gas, the USA are the hungriest for diamonds (China looks to be catching however), if you don't want blood diamonds then stop buying them, the same logic for drugs.
I am appalled at our governments treatment of BP, silly things we do in an election year.
There are three huge companies involved here, why not point fingers at all? IMO Halliburton is the guilty party.True and true. Americans are very shallow when it comes to thinking about what they buy, where it comes from and how it was made; but then, ad companies, businesses, and even social pressure discourages one from asking too many questions. Otherwise, you wind up being an un-American, commie, pinko, anti-business, blah blah blah... Yes, more fingers should be pointed at Halliburton, but they've got their fingers so deep into the government I think they'll walk away unscathed.
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@escapeartist said:
Frankly, I don't think many Americans even know that "BP" stands for British Petroleum. Anyone that makes an anti-Brit based on BP's origins statement is a short-sighted nationalistic fool, and certainly has no a selective memory of the damages done by US companies - economically and environmentally.
Your President seem's to enjoy spitting out "British" Petroleum, apparently ignorant of the fact the company has been "BP" for years.
An anti-British streak seems to run through him and on this side of the Atlantic it's starting to irritate us. If he manages to stop BP paying any dividends that's going to hurt British pensioners who rely in no small part on them for their pensions.
Then there will be the suspicion that some in the US will encourage BP to be crucified so they can make an asset stripping killing.
Is there any truth in the reports that fishermen now working for BP in the cleanup operation are making twice/three times the monthly income they ever made by fishing? -
@watkins said:
Dear bytor,
Were you, or the American people, equally outraged when an American company killed tens of thousands of innocent people, and permanently injured tens of thousands more at Bhopal, India? Your concern, as a people, was completely lacking! Bhopal continues to be an absolute disgrace, and an example of corporate America (and justice) at its worst. Handing everything over to the Indian government was a perfect piece of administrative side stepping. It was a problem caused by an American company, and America should have been the one to fix it. By way of contrast, BP has publicly stated that it will meet all clean up costs, and compensate those that need compensating.
Bob
Whoa Watkins
Many Americans were totally outraged by Bhopal. The American Bill of Rights starts out "We the People". How corporations have stuck their head into the political process is great candidate for a doctoral thesis.However the reality is that the world did not have petro power until a hundred years ago and at the current rate will not have it a hundred years from now. It seems that the timing is about right to start getting our foot off the petro accelerator as it will only hurt more if we wait until the wells run dry or we make the rest of the world rich and ourselves poor.
The only people that will be hurt are people unwilling to let go of what oil has given them. They are afraid to compete and deal with the learning curves of new technology. However, why would the rest of us care. Lets just start moving away from oil and see how well the oilmen do under a set of rules they no longer dominate.
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Thanks Roger,
Watkins, my wife and I were part of a candlelight vigil in our town for Bhopal when it first happened, one of hundreds of protests across the U.S., because we were outraged at the lack of real response by our government and its apparent siding with Union Carbide.
For a look at the U.S. Bhopal protesters' side of the story, check out:
Protests in US over Bhopal Gas Tragedy
Bhopal Activists Arrested in Non-Violent Demonstration Against Dow
There's lots more to be found.
I'm sorry if your local media presents a biased, anti-U.S. slant, but we are not all corporate drones.
When you say
@unknownuser said:
Your concern, as a people, was completely lacking!
you insult us all. I certainly felt it. I'm glad Roger put out a more even-tempered response first. We may be more homogeneous than the EU, but not much. -
Bob,
While I can’t account for the American people as a whole at the time of the Bhopal disaster - I can honestly say the answer for me is no - I was young, foolish, and not socially or environmentally conscious at that age. Being in art school in Pittsburgh at the time, I was more concerned with chasing skirts and trying to stretch my art supply budget to cover my beer expenditures. However, I seem to remember several student gatherings / demonstrations @ some of the universities there at the time. I had a friend that was a chemical engineering grad doing a 6 month externship at a Union Carbide facility in West Virginia. At the end of the 6 month period - she decided to leave and go another direction with her life, largely due to the response and the attitude about Bhopal that she encountered within the company.
The subsequent references to the politicians and their nationalistic slanted comments don’t adequately represent the opinions or positions of the American people. Of course it is turning into a political circus now, and you have every right to be concerned for your pensions if they are impacted by BP’s stock price. Paying dividends right now with still so many unanswered questions about the spill and cleanup is easy fodder for the politicians, especially considering the recent experiences the with the banking industry being bailed out and subsequent payouts of obscene bonuses to their top brass.
Washington and the politico’s aside - I don’t get the sense from anyone I have talked to that there is any of the nationalistic finger-pointing anti-British tone that you and Peter seem so miffed about. If there is by the general public - it is ill informed and misguided, which of course we americans are completely capable of. Being irritated by the administration and politicians here in the US is quickly becoming a national pastime - so you will need to take a number and get in line.
The good that may come out of this is that there will likely be more of a willingness to implement improved procedures / regulations / monitoring for deep well drilling, and hopefully a renewed focus on alternative energy development.
Dean
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i finally read the news today...
http://www.theonion.com/articles/massive-flow-of-bullshit-continues-to-gush-from-bp,17564/looks pretty bad --
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@petercharles said:
Your President seem's to enjoy spitting out "British" Petroleum, apparently ignorant of the fact the company has been "BP" for years.
An anti-British streak seems to run through him and on this side of the Atlantic it's starting to irritate us.Wow. I think it's irritating you. BP is British Petroleum, put in a Google search for "British Petroleum" and what pops up? BP! Many of us grew up with the name British Petroleum and may continue to use that name despite the fact that some marketing genius has decided that "BP" is better; it isn't ignorance, it's history. Nobody here is making this a anti-British issue except for a couple of folks that want to point out every nasty thing that a US based company has done.
If it makes you feel better, I still like England.
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