Modern Residence WIP ( Updated )
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@unknownuser said:
Have the big idea and then water it down later - that's easy
That's a process without soul.
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Go crazy with concept and let clients budget reel you in.
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@toxicvoxel said:
@unknownuser said:
Have the big idea and then water it down later - that's easy
That's a process without soul.
You can't sell your soul if you haven't got it on the first place...
Watering down 'your big idea' is what most architectural design is about - there's not just you in the equation, there are dozens of people with opinions that will influence what gets realized - the client and the accountant being just two !
If you start at the top of the hill expecting to end up a little way down it you might just make it - there'll be lots of people trying to drag you down [even your own inner demons], but at least you have the high ground.
If you start part way up the hill hoping to end up nearer the top then you have your work cut out - the same people will still be trying to drag you down even further, or at least they won't be very interested in helping you up the slope !!
So put some 'soul' in now, adding 'soul' later will require a miracle
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@unknownuser said:
You can't sell your soul if you haven't got it on the first place...
Care to explain?
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@toxicvoxel said:
@unknownuser said:
You can't sell your soul if you haven't got it on the first place...
Care to explain?
If you* present a scheme that has no 'soul' then you are hardly selling 'your soul' - in the sense of selling out your fine principles merely for money... A scheme presented without evidence of much 'soul' might be construed to show the lack of equivalent properties in its originator ?
So what is wrong with presenting the very best scheme you can [and thereby hopefully showing lots of 'soul' in it], but having a reasonable [and quite realistic] expectation that it will in some ways become compromised by others during the very complex process of realizing a building ?
Surely that is preferable to presenting something that's mediocre in the forlorn hope that you might somehow be able to improve it later...
Alternatively presenting the very best scheme and then 'throwing a wobbler' when someone wants to change something is not going to win friends, influence people or get you future commissions... Most designers in the 'real world' rely on someone else to fund and then more 'others' to realize their ideas for them - a pragmatic approach to design that expects some compromises during the process, is the only way to work without getting an early ulcer... BUT compromise from a position of strength not one of weakness...[*here I use the word 'you' to mean 'one' and no one person in particular]
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Sorry Tig, still not sure how that follows on from my comment.
Anyway it's a shame that you shut the bloke down before he had even started, and I think some of the comments in the explanation reveals a little bit of intellectual pompousness on your part. Give the bloke some space, at an age of twenty seven he is still working out the process for himself. If he is starting from a different place than you would, then let him follow that path and make his own adjustments when he reviews the results at the end of the process.
(Show some soul.)It would be great to have more 'process' oriented threads instead of just final presentations, so lets not discourage it in this way.
What I would suggest before you log into the forum in the morning (and this applies to most of the moderators),
is say "Sketchucation, the friendly place for all your Sketchup needs." three times before reading any threads. -
We ARE going well off thread here !
My intention was not to 'discourage', but rather to 'encourage'.
IMHO the design that has so far been presented showed a lot of 'intellectualism' and thought about form and how it was modeled, but little real 'soul'.
I also queried whether or not certain design elements were 'necessary' - as again IMHO every part of a design should be vital not merely 'decorative'.
I believe that a designer's job [amongst many other things] is to instill 'soul' into objects - these days anyone can make a workmanlike set of spaces - especially with the aids from modern technology.I said, "...Have the big idea and then water it down later - that's easy."
You said, "That's a process without soul."
I retort, "No it's not."
Where is the soul 'missing' if you are initially putting as much soul in as possible, expecting to loose a little as you undoubtedly have to compromise ?
Surely that's better than trying to inject bits of vitality and soul into things as you evolve the design ? There'll be plenty of other obstacles whilst you are doing that, without having to 'improve' stuff that could have been better much earlier...As an aside - in a certain other thread [remaining nameless to protect the guilty] there's someone who is making cars that are quite frankly bland and soulless - I think simply because he is concentrating on 'process' - 'how to' make it rather than 'what' he's making. He hasn't been responding well to constructive criticism from others [not me!]...
I didn't say any of this was easy: but I think it's best to start off 'BIG' in the expectation of getting whittled down to something that you'll still be proud of, rather than trying to build up something that's 'small' in nature to start with...
All of this said, let's close this side-thread... and Pugz please keep working on your ideas and post them here - don't let us grind you down !
You will get constructive criticism...
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TIG I understand you completely!! you never get what you want its almost always diluted by the clients idea of architecture and the costs involved. shame really but thats the way it goes.....anyway it's their money (and their house, so who is to say they are wrong?!)
just because you havent shown process images doesn't mean there is not a calculated theory behind your design process. we all tend to show the sketchup part of our designs, quite understandable as this is a sketchup forum.
I would suggest reduce the sun intensity in twilight (sometimes default '5' is too much). or at least make sure you have no absolute white in the model as it can appear overexposed.
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Hi Guys,
This thread was brought to my attention as being a lively debate on arch design. I have viewed the designs and read the comments.
I do not see much point in designing a structure or product without having a brief. The case here would seem to be a discussion about likes and dislikes.
Is this this 'Modern Residence WIP' being designed for a particular site / plot? Does it have a construction budget? Are there any special requirements that have to be addressed.
The best of design has always been achieved when aimed to address needs rather than playing around with ideas. Although idea bouncing is also good but not a means to an end only a stepping stone.
Maybe it might be an idea to show us a Design Brief and Site / Plot details even if these are hypothetical. We could then provide objective practical comment rather than 'advise' in general.
Mike
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Hi Guys,
Love to see that my thread spawned a good discussion. Love to be of service
. This thread started after getting inspired by pics on architectural blogs. Wanted to do something with elevations. Combination of outdoor and indoor. After seeing Artysmedia's thread I decided to do a progress tread. I understand what TIG is saying and I hope the establish my creative identity as I evolve in my work ( in generally ). Here are some new test renders. Starting on the interior now. And still looking for a perfect backdrop picture. I'm looking for a picture overlooking a bay with hilly sides. Still would love some comments on the scene and render.
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And another one.
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Personally, I'd rather hear a comment like TIG's that challenges someone to think and consider their intentions. It's easy to look at something and type a quick, "Looks great", but does the person posting really benefit from that and has the person replying even really thought about the post or just made a remark after a passing glance? Unfortunately "soul" is one of those terms that is quite arbitrary and can being misconstrued.
I'm looking forward to seeing Twan breathe some soul into his final render.
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@pugz1983 said:
Love to see that my thread spawned a good discussion. Love to be of service.
Geantwoord als een heer.
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@pugz1983 said:
After seeing Artysmedia's thread I decided to do a progress tread.
Hey, I'll leave you a weekend alone and what is this mess?
the truth is I do not know why I named here...
I'll be turning into a guru I have no soul so I can't criticize much more 
The building dont looks great, so i have to wait and seelet the boy finish his building to see what happens!
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New progress render. Need to tweak the background some more. It has to much contrast now I think. Next step is the garden on the bottom floor.
Greetz Twan
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Now it seems to me more interesting building!
Need more progress, please! -
@unknownuser said:
It's easy to look at something and type a quick, "Looks great", but does the person posting really benefit from that and has the person replying even really thought about the post or just made a remark after a passing glance?
Well said Earthmover. I have commented on this many times lately after seeing some images posted that are either too early in the design process to even comment on or images that are far to basic to deserve a "great job" or "looks great" comment. This forum is the best sketchup forum on the web and we as artists owe it to eachother to be honest with our comments as we will never grow if all we ever hear is "great job" when we know the work is undeserving of a positive comment. While I may not have agreed with TIG's comment about "no soul" at first I do respect it and understand it after further explanation. I would love to see this forum become something of the CGsociety (http://www.cgsociety.com) for the sketchup community but I think right now it is lacking the works from enough premiere sketchup artist. Hopefully that will change over time. We all know amazing work when we see it. I would love to see a closed gallery for some of these "premiere works". Not sure how these works would be evaluated to be placed in this gallery but I sure that could be worked out. I think it is sad to see some of these amazing works get buried under newer posts and get lost over time.
Now on to Pugz updates. I really like the progress of this image but have some concerns. The glass side of the structure (left) looks really nice and flows well. If the structure is going to be a waterfront residence then the use of all the glass fits this well. The issues I have are the use of the rails on the second level from the top. Is there a walkway at the level or are the rails there only to tie into the rest of the design?
The right side of the image (all the wood louvers), are divorced from the rest of the structure for a few reasons. The use of all the wood do not fit with the rest of the design. The other side (left) uses a lot of glass and metal and no wood at all. It seems as though the left side of the structure has received much more attention (for now) and this might work itself out as the right side is developed further. The wood material on the louvers just does not work for me.All in all I think the image will come to life better and some design choices might come together as the design matures. I like what is done so far and it is gathering soul (IMO).
Best regards,
Scott
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