By value or by reference?

[thomthom]

Why do these two things differ: I pass a string to a method and modify the string:

def m3(a); a += 'bar'; end

` > x = 'foo'
foo

m3(x)
foobar
x
foo`

...and the string outside the method is not changed.

But use a Point3d:

def m4(p); p.x = 99; end

` > n = Geom::Point3d.new(1,2,3)
Point3d(1, 2, 3)

m4(n)
99
n
Point3d(99, 2, 3)`

And now it does change...

When I pass Point3d objects to methods that modify the passed argument, I use p2 = p1.clone - but is this the best way to do get a local copy to work on?

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

Why do these two things differ: I pass a string to a method and modify the string:
def m3(a); a += 'bar'; end
(from the Ruby 'Pick-Axe' book):
str + aString -> aNewString
+ Concatenation---Returns a new String containing aString concatenated to str.

@thomthom said:

` > x = 'foo'
foo

m3(x)
foobar
x
foo`
...and the string outside the method is not changed.

Because 'foobar' is the new string object that was transparently constructed with String.new by Ruby.

[thomthom]

Ok, but what about this one?

` > x = 'foo'
foo

def m3(a); a = 'bar'; end
nil
m3(x)
bar
x
foo`

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

a += 'bar'

Just a quick note about += for String objects.

(We also discussed this in another thread.) %(#4040BF)[EDIT ( got confused for a min; removed previous statement.)]
My advice is, for less confusion, use the proper String append operator: (It's the same work for typing!)
a << 'bar'

ADD: IMHO, the interpreter should raise a SyntaxError when it sees += for Strings. I wonder if a Warning is output?
UPDATE: No, I tested += with $VERBOSE set to true, and no warning is output.

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

Ok, but what about this one?
` > x = 'foo'
foo

def m3(a); a = 'bar'; end
nil
m3(x)
bar
x
foo`

..the above, is the same as:
@thomthom said:

` def m3(a); a += 'bar'; end

x = 'foo'
foo
m3(x)
foobar
x
foo`
.. with respect to that:

(1) the reference a, is at method start, pointing at the same string object 'foo' that the reference x is pointing at; ..and

(2) then the expression on the right of the '=', in both cases, results in the creation of a new string object by Ruby.
..(a) In case 1, Ruby calls String.new('bar') (we'll call it: newbarstr.)
..(b) In case 2, Ruby first expands a += 'bar', into a = a + 'bar', then (as in case 1,) evaluates the right-hand expression, transparently passing literal string args to String.new, keeping track of the anonymous pointers to the new string objects. In this example there is only one (we'll call it newbarstr.) Then, it calls a.+(newbarstr) which is the string concatenation method, that returns yet another new string object created by Ruby (we'll call it foobarstr, but remember Ruby uses temporary numerical identifiers.) So at this point the right-hand expression is now done and set to temp string object foobarstr.

(3) NOW.. both cases make a REFERENCE assignment, which assigns the reference a to point at the new String objects created from their evaluations.

(4) Lacking any specific return expression, the method returns the last result, which is the value of the object that a was made to point at, which is NOT the object 'foo'.

(5) Since the method call was made "stand-alone" and it's result not referenced, when the method exits, a will disposed of by Garbage Collection, along with any temporary objects Ruby used within the method.

(6) .. all that's left, is reference x pointing at poor 'lil string object 'foo'.

+= vs. <<
Looking back at (2)(b) above, and realizing all the work that is going on, and string objects being created, just to glue two substrings together.. we should all want to use << (the String append method,) instead.
The main reason is, that it only creates one temporary string, IF the argument is a literal; otherwise NO temporary string, IF the argument is a reference to an existing string object.
String.<< instead directly modifies the receiver string object by appending the string argument object onto it.

Bottom line: Free Your Ruby Mind !!
Throw away the word 'variable' and think 'reference'.
$reference, global_reference, local_reference, instance_reference, @reference, class_reference, @@reference, module_reference ... reference, Reference, REFERENCE !

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

Why do[es] ... Point3d [differ?]

def m4(p); p.x = 99; end

` > n = Geom::Point3d.new(1,2,3)
Point3d(1, 2, 3)

m4(n)
99
n
Point3d(99, 2, 3)`
And now it does change...

Apples and Oranges.

In this case, your calling a 'method operator' ie: Geom::Point3d.x= that happens to have a '=' character in the method name. It's not the same as the Ruby hard-coded = operator.

Your getting confused because the interpreter allows you to insert a space into the method call.

Also.. Geom::Point3d.x= is more similar to String.<<, in that the method doesn't replace an entire object, it only modifies part of the object.
Specifically, Geom::Point3d.x= is an attribute setter method, involving Numerics, so no temporary Integer, and p is still pointing at the same object n is, so naturally, yes the common object gets modified.

Since Geom::Point3d has no dup method, you'll have to use clone to create a copy.

[thomthom]

@dan rathbun said:

In this case, your calling a 'method operator' ie: Geom::Point3d.x= that happens to have a '=' character in the method name. It's not the same as the Ruby hard-coded = operator.

Your getting confused because the interpreter allows you to insert a space into the method call.

Ahah! This is the core of my confusion indeed!

.x= (which can be written .x =) is really just a Ruby naming conversion for .set_x.

Thanks for this explanation Dan. Appreciate it.

So using p2 = p1.clone is the proper way to get a copy of a point then?

[tbd]

see also The Ruby programming language By David Flanagan, Yukihiro Matsumoto

[thomthom]

@unknownuser said:

see also The Ruby programming language By David Flanagan, Yukihiro Matsumoto

Interesting link. I think I need to read further into that book.
Did remind me of another thing about Ruby - true/ false, why they don't equal to 1 and 0. I've burned myself a couple of times on that one.

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

So using p2 = p1.clone is the proper way to get a copy of a point then?

Only way if you keep it a Point3d. If you convert to Array, then you have the real 'proper' .dupand .clonethat are inherited correctly from Object.

The Geom::Point3ddid inherit .dupbut it does not work, it returns nil.
And Google overrode the standard .clone, and the new one does not pass on taintedness and frozen state correctly.

[thomthom]

Well, if .to_a is faster than cloning a Point3d then I can live with that. I just need to grab a copy of some x,y,z co-ordinates and modify its values - as fast as possible.

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

Well, if .to_a is faster ...

.to_a is 1 less char to type than .clone

.. and itwillcreate a new Array object, and since the GSUT extended the Array class with .x, .y, .z etc, it's same same...

[thomthom]

Only preview of the book - not the whole thing. I just placed an order for it. I don't like reading books on screen. Hurts my eyes.

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

@unknownuser said:

see also The Ruby programming language By David Flanagan, Yukihiro Matsumoto

Interesting link. I think I need to read further into that book.

No Kidding! Yukihiro Matsumoto is "Matz" the inventor of Ruby!

I didn't know Google Books had this.