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    Let's talk about D.O.F

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    • D Offline
      dacad
      last edited by

      Hi Solo

      That's a hard thing to ask (at least i couldn't find much info about that for Corel Paint Shop, sorry)

      I'm more a Photoshop guy but i presume the workflow should be the same just changing the name and the position of the tools in the software. Anyway heres a basic dof tutorial in Corel Paint Shop but without the depth pass:

      301 Moved Permanently

      favicon

      (www.brighthub.com)

      Honestly i advise to see this next tutorial that i'ts more turn to photoshop and uses 2 diferent methods for DOF (and i bet they can be adapt to paint shop). Again this one it's with photos and without using the depth pass:

      http://www.minervity.com/news/2-ways-to-create-realistic-depth-of-field/

      This last one is more complete and the final result it's just perfect. It's done in MAX but once you have the depth pass the workflow is the same. The final results and examples show a very good use of depth field in 3D:

      Onno van Braam - Computer Graphics

      Onno van Braam, www.onnovanbraam.com - Computer Graphics: Portfolio, Tutorials, 90000+ Blueprints

      favicon

      (www.onnovanbraam.com)

      As i said this last one it's really really good and complete and aimed for 3D, but i advise to see the others too as they will give you a good understanding about the whole process (and possibly a better idea of how to adapt it to Paint Shop).

      Hope it helps.

      David

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      • daleD Offline
        dale
        last edited by

        Great tut's DacaD. Thanks... The last one is about as good as it gets, although I think it is easier to get the realism on an object at close range.

        Just monkeying around....like Monsanto

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        • soloS Offline
          solo
          last edited by

          Thanks David, I noticed that paintshop pro X2 has depth of field, I have version X, so do I upgrade or not is the question?

          I really need to learn Photoshop, but does my brain have space left to learn yet another app.

          http://www.solos-art.com

          If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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          • brodieB Offline
            brodie
            last edited by

            Funny you bring this up Pete. I did a DOF experiment over the weekend. This is a Maxwell Render image with no post processing.

            http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/384281/dof bed.jpg

            I think it turned out pretty well. I think you're right that it tends to work better on small items or studio setups (like the experiment above). One thing I've learned about DOF is that it's very difficult to get any at all on large ArchViz images, simply by nature of camera properties. However, sometimes I find it desirable. Sometimes if you've got trees going off into infinity, for example, it looks odd to have them perfectly crisp and detailed. Alternatively it's good for foreground trees as well so they don't become the focus. Here's an example from a recent project (the image is cropped to illustrate the DOF on the foreground tree).

            Without DOF

            http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/384281/DOF without.jpg

            With Postprocessed DOF

            http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/384281/DOF with.jpg

            I think you were on the right track with your DOF, Pete, but probably just over did it. Typically what I like to do is create a top layer with all of the merged information from the layers below. Then I'll apply my DOF effect pretty drastically and then decrease the opacity of that layer until it looks right. Usually I'll end up somewhere around 30%. I think it's an effect where you're better off going with too little than too much. Maxwell Render has the ability to create a Z-depth image which helps greatly with DOF in post process.

            -Brodie

            steelblue http://www.steelbluellc.com

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            • RichardR Offline
              Richard
              last edited by

              @solo said:

              Thanks David, I noticed that paintshop pro X2 has depth of field, I have version X, so do I upgrade or not is the question?

              I really need to learn Photoshop, but does my brain have space left to learn yet another app.

              Mate PS is really fairly easy to pick up! The depth of what can be achieved though is beyond comprehension! I bought a really good book by - scott kelby, kerby, kelly, ??? Can't even remember the title, but got me straight into it! Great book in that it was just easy and graphic to follow!

              There are a ton of them - even a ton of mags in the newsagency dedicated to PS - has to suggest something!

              [BUILTBRAND.COM.AU](http://builtbrand.com.au/)

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              • RichardR Offline
                Richard
                last edited by

                Brodes!

                Mate that first image is a perfect use of DOF, well depending on what you were aiming to show or sell I guess, selling the spread fabric for sure!!!! BTW great satin!!! (oh and chrome)(oh and very nice detailed model on the sheets and covers!).

                [BUILTBRAND.COM.AU](http://builtbrand.com.au/)

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                • soloS Offline
                  solo
                  last edited by

                  For the last two years I've toyed with the idea of getting PS and dedicating one week (unpaid) time to master it.
                  But I always procrastinate based on all sorts of excuses like the economy cannot afford me to lose the time, the cost, the effort, etc.

                  Personally I can do everything I need with Corel, maybe a 3rd party app that just does DOF?
                  I can extract a depth image from a render, just how to use it?

                  See image from original render.

                  http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8113/depthoffieldimage.jpg

                  http://www.solos-art.com

                  If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                  • brodieB Offline
                    brodie
                    last edited by

                    Here's a tutorial that includes info on how to use that image to create DOF in photoshop

                    Onno van Braam - Computer Graphics

                    Onno van Braam, www.onnovanbraam.com - Computer Graphics: Portfolio, Tutorials, 90000+ Blueprints

                    favicon

                    (www.onnovanbraam.com)

                    -Brodie

                    steelblue http://www.steelbluellc.com

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                    • brodieB Offline
                      brodie
                      last edited by

                      @unknownuser said:

                      I get the camera out and pick a subject that best emulates the render. I take a few shots of it starting with a very shallow depth at about f-1.8 to f-4...moving to a long depth at around f22 or higher. I decide which depth is going to work and I set the renderer to that f-stop. I do this every time. If it is set properly it seems to ad a level of realism that you cannot get without it.

                      Wouldn't it be quicker to just do a few low res test renders?

                      -brodie

                      steelblue http://www.steelbluellc.com

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                      • N Offline
                        nomeradona
                        last edited by

                        hypershot dof

                        http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m421/nomeradona_1234/DOFhypershot.jpg

                        visit my blog: http://www.nomeradona.blogspot.com

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                        • brodieB Offline
                          brodie
                          last edited by

                          interesting, and what renderer do you use?

                          -Brodie

                          steelblue http://www.steelbluellc.com

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                          • soloS Offline
                            solo
                            last edited by

                            Here is a screen shot (portion) of Vue's camera DOF controls.

                            Besides the normal numerical inputs you have camera controls, 1) is the point of total focus and 2) is the start of DOF.

                            http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6264/vuedof.jpg

                            And here is the other camera controls.

                            http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4056/camerasetupvue.jpg

                            http://www.solos-art.com

                            If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                            • soloS Offline
                              solo
                              last edited by

                              There is a 3rd party DOF app available, and free, this is from a guy called 'Wax' that posted on the Twilight forum, see his site and give it a try.

                              Link Preview Image
                              Renaud Warnotte Website

                              Some of my little works

                              favicon

                              RENAUD WARNOTTE Website (renaud.warnotte.be)

                              Okay, I have been playing around with a simple model, using post processing, does this look right?

                              Image no DOF

                              http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5517/testvuedepth.jpg

                              Background DOF:

                              http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6132/dof2g.jpg

                              Foreground DOF:

                              http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2796/dof1.jpg

                              http://www.solos-art.com

                              If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                              • soloS Offline
                                solo
                                last edited by

                                Here is another post edit DOF attempt, this time I concentrated on the flower bed in the foreground, but something is just wrong and I cannot figure out what.

                                (Twilight render)

                                http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2738/dofonplants.jpg

                                http://www.solos-art.com

                                If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                                • soloS Offline
                                  solo
                                  last edited by

                                  Okay imagine you are squinting then 😄

                                  http://www.solos-art.com

                                  If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                                  • brodieB Offline
                                    brodie
                                    last edited by

                                    How do you input the area that should be blurred? The second image seems odd. The blur seems to be bleeding over to the shadow of the box in the background. I imagine on a more complicated scene this would be even more obvious.

                                    -Brodie

                                    steelblue http://www.steelbluellc.com

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                                    • S Offline
                                      sepo
                                      last edited by

                                      In architectural composition which mostly is scene with some distance from the camera, DOF is nonexistent. If you look any great arch photography it is not evident. However if we are talking product design with close up shots than DOF is quite powerfull tool.

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                                      • M Offline
                                        Macker
                                        last edited by

                                        @unknownuser said:

                                        If you really want to get into DOF you have to buy a camera. The ideal camera would be an old reflex 35mm with a 55mm lens on it. So you are thinking is modelhead nuts (yes)...This camera is not for taking picturesit is for checking DOF. These old reflex cameras will allow you to adjust the F-stops while you look through the camera lensso you can see in real time how your depth of field is changing. I have a working camera but I also have one of these test cameras...it is a pentax spotmatic from the 70's. I paid 20 bucks for it.

                                        Might as well just get a nice new DSLR if you're gonna get into photography.

                                        Check out my blog @ http://macviz.blogspot.co.uk

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                                        • AnssiA Offline
                                          Anssi
                                          last edited by

                                          @solo said:

                                          Here is another post edit DOF attempt, this time I concentrated on the flower bed in the foreground, but something is just wrong and I cannot figure out what.

                                          The image is quite unsuitable for the use of DOF effects. In a bright daylight setting with an extreme wideangle lens, everything is in focus from the toes of the photographer to the distant mountains.

                                          @sepo said:

                                          In architectural composition which mostly is scene with some distance from the camera, DOF is nonexistent. If you look any great arch photography it is not evident.

                                          Actually, in good arch photography the DOF is almost infinite, as in any photography under good conditions, medium to long distances and good lenses. In an extreme closeup photograph the DOF is very shallow.
                                          The use of DOF is one of the differences between a realistic render and an imitation photograph. The human eye (actually, the brain)experiences everything as sharp, regardless of distance, lighting or atmosphere (except fog).

                                          Anssi

                                          securi adversus homines, securi adversus deos rem difficillimam adsecuti sunt, ut illis ne voto quidem opus esset

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                                          • M Offline
                                            Macker
                                            last edited by

                                            @unknownuser said:

                                            @unknownuser said:

                                            The use of DOF is one of the differences between a realistic render and an imitation photograph.

                                            ....my feeling as well.

                                            @unknownuser said:

                                            Might as well just get a nice new DSLR if you're gonna get into photography.

                                            None that I know of (DSLR's) can do what I described in real time. I use a nikon d300 and a Canon Rebel. Neither of these cameras can adjust DOF in realtime through the lens.

                                            Both of those cameras have a depth of field preview button, read the manuals. All DSLR's have depth of field preview buttons afaik. My sony alpha 100 does.

                                            Check out my blog @ http://macviz.blogspot.co.uk

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