George Carlin 1937-2007
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2 Be not rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be hasty to utter a word before God, for God is in heaven, and you upon earth; therefore let your words be few.
3 For a dream comes with much business, and a fool's voice with many words.Ecclesiastes 5:2-3 -
OH boy! I hate religious debates can we put a lid on it please, pretty please with a cherry on top?
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Indeed, it does seem rather inappropriate for a thread regarding the death of a man many respected.
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Bravo August, I totally agree with you. But you still owe me a cherry, mmm maybe two.
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Forgive me, Marian. Even with a cherry on top, I've been hearing Dick Cheney, and now his daughter, on the news far too much these days. Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
@remus said:
... rather inappropriate for a thread regarding the death of a man ...
Maybe not. Religion and death do seem to go together.I interpret the original Bible-quote post here (2 Peter 3:3) as implying that because Carlin mocked God, he's dead. The reverse is that to embrace God is to have everlasting life.
But that everlasting life is not in this world, so it may be that Carlin is there anyway; he was, after all, martyred for his fight for truth and honesty, as he saw it in his soul, regardless of authority. We cannot know. We can only do our own best.
Maybe it's true that God does intervene and punish those who mock Him. Maybe that hurricane delayed the start of the Republican Convention last year because so many of them use the Lord's name in Vanity.
It is the height of God-mocking vanity to presume to know God's will based on your personal, mortal interpretation of words that have been politically manipulated for nearly two millenia. If Satan can quote scripture, then the printed Bible is subject to manipulation by those who are less than pure. Emperor Constantine demanded that all references to reincarnation be stricken from the Bible. He was a less than righteous man and he was not struck down for that. Or if he was, his misdeeds still endure. But you can still find reincarnation mentioned if you look in the pre-Nicean texts. It's part of the Jewish tradition in which Christ grew up.
One needs to make a distinction between "religion" and "organized religion". Carlin did not mock God, he mocked organized religion. It is the organized-religion folks who make that false equivalence, saying that mocking them is mocking God, equating themselves to God, saying that they, as mortal men, know what God says, means, and intends better than all others, who are merely mortal men. Carlin pointed out frequently that, throughout history, organized religion has used people's fear of death to manipulate them into doing evil. That is not mocking God. That is attempting to expose those who do evil in God's name.
When you stop looking for God in your own soul and turn to other mortals to tell you what is right, when you attempt to stop others from listening to God in their own souls and demand that they listen to you or to the other mortals that you listen to, then you open yourself to being manipulated by Satan, even without your knowledge.
I'm pretty sure George would agree with me on that. He was a courageous man and I admire him. And I take umbrage with those who imply that he was less than that, for they clearly know not their own souls but would judge the souls of others.
That's just my opinion. I may be wrong.
August -
Marian wrote:
“I say we should just follow Christ's advice, and love ourselves and our neighbours, after all "All You Need is Love" (The Beatles).”MARIAN, “Christ's advice” is this:
“I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you…”( Matthew 5:44);
or that:
“But I say unto you that hear, love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, bless them that curse you, pray for them that despitefully use you.” (Luke 6:27-28)
After that…, you can put “a cherry ('mmm maybe two') on top”!MIKE, thank you for your ‘words’! Everything is more than OK, because…“For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
(Colossians 1:16-17)Cornel
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From another book, just as inspirational:
"We do not consider our principles as dogmas contained in books said to come from heaven. We derive our inspiration, not from heaven, or the unseen world, but directly from life." (Ataturk )
And another one:
"You don't look up truthiness in a book, you look it up in your gut." (Stephen Colbert)
I even might slip in this one
:"I'm the guy who thinks religion is bad and drugs are good. I think children aren't innocent, god doesn't write books, and Jesus wasn't a republican." (Bill Maher)
I suggest we continue this discussion by using just book quotes...
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This sounds good to my year,"dictionary" may be replaced with "book" just for better integration into this "discussion".
@unknownuser said:
True words are not found in a dictionary. They are shaped by the mind. Given form in the tone. And mature in the company of others. ~ Coen Naninck 1994
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Due to the fact that Ely is my friend i don't want to get into a Bible fight with him, so i'm quitting this discussion.
I can only say, we better leave religion to....well...who wants it, and get back to Holy Sketchup. -
Mr Kwisten..how old are your books? Have they millions of copies ? have they a real base? are they written by over 40 authors(inspired by the same Spirit) and yet to be harmonious books,with well based stories and all? Were they burned,interdicted etc and yet to resist and be more popular as time goes?Are they prophecies that became true after hundreds and thousands of years?Are they actual even after 2000 or more after they ve been written ?Are they...and the list can go on
16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-1738 ... for if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail;
39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!"
Acts 5:38-39 -
And yet..God is good and he let us a choice ..i chose for a better life here and afterlife 
Thanks Marian! -
@ely862me said:
Mr Kwisten..how old are your books? Have they millions of copies ? have they a real base? are they written by over 40 authors(inspired by the same Spirit) and yet to be harmonious books,with well based stories and all? Were they burned,interdicted etc and yet to resist and be more popular as time goes?Are they prophecies that became true after hundreds and thousands of years?Are they actual even after 2000 or more after they ve been written ?Are they...and the list can go on
No.
I just quoted some lines from some books. Some words on paper.
But I am glad you find joy in your book. -
@marian said:
I can only say, we better leave religion to....well...who wants it, and get back to Holy Sketchup.
It's not like that, Marian. There are generally a good deal of interesting thoughts on each side worth reading. It's a recurring topic anyway
My only wish is that everyone keeps respecting the other debating party and the thread doesn't go into personal abuses. But neither of them seems to be that kind...
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Good on you.
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“Find joy”!?
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Finding “… love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.” (Galatians 5:22-23)
Finding “… the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
…and, more important (Ely mentioned it), finding/obtaining everlasting life!
Cornel
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