In need of a good forum
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Do any of you know a good forum based on creating websites? Someplace where I can ask my semi pro/noob questions? A forum with good and helpful info?
The other option is to bore you guys with my questions
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Theres a few people here whove built/build websites. Cant hurt to try your luck here...
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Hi Hugo,
Well,if you know why it is better for the design to use css, you will understand why it is better toorganise your content with css instead of tables, too. Once you set up your div's in css,you will have a constant layout throuout the whole site while with tables,it may never be so successful (I know, I started with them, too, and my first website is still made up of tables).
On top of all, tables are the most "browser sensitive" elements and you will never find two browsers rendering them the same way. Thirdly, what happens if you want to change a bit of the layout? Are you then going to go through every single page again, changing every single table to follow the change?
All this can be done in one, single css file (I mean I hope you use only one, separate css file an not a css part in every page, don't you?)
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@unknownuser said:
Thirdly, what happens if you want to change a bit of the layout? Are you then going to go through every single page again, changing every single table to follow the change?
In an environment where there is very dynamic content the need to make global changes to formatting is becoming more and more mute. Most large scale page factories are changing formating in a very subtle and iterative fasion as the content itself changes or by applying parcing utilities that read the design changes and update the CSS.
If you are the creator and owner of your page it is becoming more efficient to have a third party look after your browser compatability issues. For example, Yahoo Sitebuider allows you a graphical interface to your design view, manages your css requirements with out a hint of it being present, inspects your code for compatability, checks your code in and out effortlessly.
For about 10 bucks a month you get all the space you could ever use and 24/7 response from your server. There is a codeless solution to frames/scripts/tables/ad-ons such as my sql, forums, blogs, live calendars, forms both mail and sql. The databases are optimized by the yahoo team so there is no maintenance. All the ad-on features have an installer to get you started without any mistakes...your only concern is style and content. The "as you see it" editor allows copy forward features, copy in place, and global copy of navigation elements virtually rendering the effectiveness of global CSS to the background.I believe that Google may have a similar set of tools although I never hear about them.
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@gaieus said:
Hi Hugo,
.. Once you set up your div's in CSS,you will have a constant layout throughout the whole site while with tables,it may never be so successful ... Thirdly, what happens if you want to change a bit of the layout? Are you then going to go through every single page again, changing every single table to follow the change?
If I understand correctly CSS is mainly useful when creating websites holding multiple pages and CSS is the only way to go when creating dynamic content? Since the website I've created is only one page [with some div's popping up] I think I'll keep it the way it is [the layout, maybe the looks will change
]This brings me to another question: If you compare tables to CSS with performance in mind, is there one that stands out? I know whit tables you sometimes have to create multiple to get the result you want. Is it really different with CSS?
@gaieus said:
All this can be done in one, single CSS file (I mean I hope you use only one, separate CSS file an not a CSS part in every page, don't you?)
I use one CSS file yes, but since I mostly use tables for layout there is some CSS in the xHTML code [not really a problem though because it is only one xHTML page
]I think you've misunderstood my question. I don't have a problem creating websites [most of the time 5 minutes of google will solve my problem
] I just want to know the advantages of using CSS instead of tables [some real examples ] -
@unknownuser said:
So, if someone would be kind enough to shine a light on this subject and/or could tell me why and how to [easily ] use CSS for the layout of my website I would be thankful!
I can't find any good reason for you except from the origins of CSS itself. Its contemporary use is fading.
Many specifications maintained for use by WC3 have come and gone in the last 20 years. CSS is just one of thousands that is evolving in its application (or lack of application) in concert with other available design, mark-up and development methods.
When CSS first arrived there was a desperate need to consume large amounts of content with page layout. A new information age was in the throws of infancy and the corporate world (slow to take up the challenge) rushed to publish its collateral information for the entire world to see. The stake holders also thought they should maintain a connection between the published collateral they owned and the new web content. The ability to stream text into formatting for either media from a single configuration file was a blessing. ( As it turns out that type of massive streaming of data between media type is today practically non existent.)
back to the web....
As a result IE and Netscape shot ahead with quite a technical leap to accommodate many somewhat desperate objects such as multi format images, then scripts, embedded objects and formatting elements for presentation. At the time graphical design tools, layout tools and code editors were very primitive. You could imagine that maintaining all of that code, which also in its nature carried a mass of repeated tagging information, could become very time consuming. This kind of redundancy could surely create a performance loss on the client as well.There is no doubt there needed to be a standard not only for the purpose of page layout and construction but as well for the better development of browser interpreters as many early, serious http applications of the server-page method failed at the client. Clients themselves where still evolving and as a result their behavior was hard to predict and standardize.
Times have changed. The computer you are using has a processor that is 100 times faster than the fastest available when CSS arrived. That gives the browser interpreter some real horsepower to gobble code. The browser software itself is almost unrecognizable as compared to the day CSS was introduced. Browsers where pretty dumb just a few years ago. Now they are elaborate powerhouses able to read and interpret many heterogeneous code methods and code objects. The botts have become very massive and complex as well and find CSS an assist but not a necessity for document identification, parsing and interpreting.
Repetitive design elements and need for global formatting changes are now being accommodated within design tools by Microsoft and Adobe and many other small independents like Homesite as well as great free scripting tools like Notepad++. The arguments for CSS are not as relevant in the context of available technology.
I can't point you to a good CSS tool that doesn't cost money and unless for hobby, there is no neeed to play with CSS. You are best to find a good page dev tool that looks after the base CSS for you or a provider that suplies tools and web space that is inspected and modified behind the scenes.
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@unknownuser said:
If I understand correctly CSS is mainlyuseful when creating websites holding multiple pages and CSS is the only way to go when creating dynamic content? Since the website I've created is only one page [with some div's popping up] I think I'll keep it the way it is [the layout, maybe the looks will change
]I wouldn't even say "mainly" but "especially" - when you have multiple pages (which is actually the way most websites work but I now understand that yours doesn't).
And CSS is no way the only way for dynamic content.
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Thanks for the info guys. I think I'll give CSS for layout another go [the first go was looking at it and saying: meh...
] I have to create a portfolio for my work before June, which gives me enough time to mess around with it. -
Well I don't just have one question, so on the long run I think I would be better of on a forum based on creating websites, but it couldn't hurt to ask one: Why should I use CSS for the layout of my website? I'm using it already for the 'looks', but I'm still using tables for layout. Mainly because it is pretty easy working with tables in dreamweaver. [in 'design' mode, not in code. In code it really sucks sometimes
]Example: REMOVED [working directory, real site is somewhere else
]And I know the first thing you'll find typing 'tables, html' in google is that you shouldn't use it because CSS is better, but I simply don't get it [not even after 15 minutes of googling for it
]So, if someone would be kind enough to shine a light on this subject and/or could tell me why and how to [easily
] use CSS for the layout of my website I would be thankful!Ps. could we start a thread in the corner bar on how irritating IE7 [or IE6 for that matter] is when you are creating a website. I mean, come on! What takes me 2 days to get right in FF takes me more than a week to get working in IE
Pps. I was joking about that tread, but it is still irritating
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