Mac v Win
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I find it interesting that people always have so much passion for "their choice" when this debate inevitably rises. But I would like to put forward the proposition that there would be no Windows OS at all had Mac not all along used the desktop style Graphical User Interface (GUI) system. This system was not actually developed by Mac but by Xerox PARC by Alan Kay, Douglas Engelbart, and when introduced to Steve Jobs early in his process of developing Apple computers he adopted the system under the title Apple Lisa. The Xerox system was never developed by Xerox commercially, and Jobs hired some of the Xerox team to help him develop the GUI.
Now I don't know if many of you were around when all Microsoft offered was MS-DOs (Microsoft Digital Operating System), I was, and I was using a Tandy TRS 80, and (probably dreaming of a Commadore 64) tick tacking away with the Tab button using the old fill in the blank style software when along came the Mac Plus it had this tricky little device called a mouse ( which when Jobs recruited Microsoft as the first third party software developer for his system he had an agreement not to ship any software that used the mouse for at least one year after the first Macintosh shipped). That was the point when I first heard this debate rage. MS-DOS users called the Mac a toy, and claimed that only the PC DOS based system could be used for serious business applications. Mac users just kept smiling that little smug smile like they knew something that other didn't.
But you know there really was something logical about that interface. It was elegant and intuitive.
I think Bill Gates sensed that too, and MS announced the development of its new GUI mouse based system called Windows in Nov 1983 at the Comdex trade show. This of course cause a rift between Gates and Jobs, and eventually led to the famous law suit that Apple lost. And as it happened the member of the Microsoft team that developed the Apple software for MS , Neil Konzen, was assigned to the develop the second version of Windows (the first version Windows 1.0 was generally seen as pretty dismal) which was released a couple of years later in about 1987 and became the basis of the successful Windows line (some would argue with the exception of Vista)
Although it may be an Urban Myth, at the meeting that took place after Microsoft's announcement of Windows release, Gates apparently after sitting through a tirade by the angry Jobs was supposed to have said: " Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had a rich neighbour named Xerox, and when I broke in to steal his TV set, I found you had already stolen it."Windows and Mac desktop flashback
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@unknownuser said:
Hmm, since one cannot measure "pretty" and "ugly" I'll leave that up to the individual. Both are tools to get a task done. I guess when my desktop needs to be pretty under my desk that will matter
or when I care how pretty the case is. To each their own.
I guess people go to the hardware to get a pretty hammer
As a designer I spend a lot of time with my computer and it is important to me that it looks cool. Of course, if my Macs were a source of frustration, I would change, but, they provide everything I need in a beautiful package. Sure, I've had my moments over the years when I wanted to throttle Apple, but, when it all shook out, there was no real viable alternative.
When I cook, I use nicely designed knives and if I was a carpenter... Nice hammer, Mike.On the topic of Mac vs Pc, well, when I was a kid the big fight was Ford vs Chevy.
Things never change.
You only pass this way one time. -
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People just get ruffled because their decision-making faculties are being questioned--and this is enhanced by a media-driven commercial rivalry (whereas neither Apple or MS really care about it as they go to the bank).
So just to set the record straight, maybe we can all agree:
ALL Mac users are fluff-headed, fashion-obsessed fan-boys, barely capable of connecting a monitor, and easily duped into paying exorbitant prices for "pretty" above performance.
All PC users are propeller-headed, tech-drenched, drudges, who would rather fix a computer than use one, and are too cheap to pay for, much less recognize elegance.
There, debate settled.
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Where old iMacs go to die...
When the LCD died I removed it and created 'Samar-iMac'.
Still works great!
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I think I like the Hammer debate better
Been swingin a 28oz Estwing straight claw/smooth face for better than 25yrs.
C
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No time to play, I prefer my hammer to be multipurpose, have attitude, be tough and destroy Mac's.
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Hey Dale, you forgot to talk about Top View, IBM's (when it was still made in America) character based, multi-tasking (sort of), cut and paste between applications, user interface. Best computer keyboard layout brought to us by the makers of the Selectric.
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@unknownuser said:
I think I like the Hammer debate better
Been swingin a 28oz Estwing straight claw/smooth face for better than 25yrs.
C
Now thats a hammer. With a 28 oz Estwing in one hand and a 32 oz Vaughan in the other we could take on both Mac and PC. (Sorry Solo but your hammer would look a little twinkie in the old pouch)
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best_estwing_ever:
http://www.estwing.com/product.php?product_id=500
25oz but a couple inches longer than the more common 22 or 28... been swinging one for 15yrs now.. they used to be hard to find but the internet makes things easier..
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@pbacot said:
So just to set the record straight, maybe we can all agree:
ALL Mac users are fluff-headed, fashion-obsessed fan-boys, barely capable of connecting a monitor, and easily duped into paying exorbitant prices for "pretty" above performance.
All PC users are propeller-headed, tech-drenched, drudges, who would rather fix a computer than use one, and are too cheap to pay for, much less recognize elegance.
There, debate settled.
Very well said!
Estwing blammers are the business! I wouldn't buy Stanley anything other than their blades.
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Okay, I have found a way to reach a decision on the Mac v Win contest. http://issue.igizmo.co.uk/1J499c416beb4fa385.cde/page/24
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Jeez, you shake a Mac PC tree and out fall a bunch of carpenters
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I've never liked curve claw hammmers.....
I got into Mac because that's what they used at work. I also worked on PC's in learning AutoCAD. Early ACAD and PC's were not a good introduction, but I think it is just familiarity and the available programs (which I still use--and only available on Mac) that kept me on Macs. I think the Windows interface has caught up.
That said, there is something to an attractive OS and computer design. To call the look and feel of tools you use every day "fashion" seems antithetical to a forum populated by designers. It's about what I experience every day, not what others see (no one usually sees my computer). Again I think Windows is probably the same now for it's users.
As for hardware, I have not bought PC's but the Mac computers I buy are increasingly less expensive, faster, more dependable, smaller (and yes cooler-looking) than ever before. It's never been a question of a couple hundred bucks whether to buy a new Mac when I needed to move up. I also don't miss having to "maintain" my computer any more than I do. I got it to draw and design, not play IT-man.
I think PC's, Windows, Macs, and the MacOS have benefited greatly from one each other. I don't think we should take this conversation too seriously. -
Yes, I spend a lot of time on my computers too. I do like to look at pretty items so I have nice looking desktop images and such when my main applications are not open. My 5 year old Dell at home runs just fine. Probably going to replace this year just to use newer PCIe video cards, faster ram and such. I'll give the Dell to my 9 year old. He likes to draw with SU like his old man
As I said to each their own@double espresso said:
@unknownuser said:
Hmm, since one cannot measure "pretty" and "ugly" I'll leave that up to the individual. Both are tools to get a task done. I guess when my desktop needs to be pretty under my desk that will matter
or when I care how pretty the case is. To each their own.
I guess people go to the hardware to get a pretty hammerAs a designer I spend a lot of time with my computer and it is important to me that it looks cool. Of course, if my Macs were a source of frustration, I would change, but, they provide everything I need in a beautiful package. Sure, I've had my moments over the years when I wanted to throttle Apple, but, when it all shook out, there was no real viable alternative.
When I cook, I use nicely designed knives and if I was a carpenter... Nice hammer, Mike.On the topic of Mac vs Pc, well, when I was a kid the big fight was Ford vs Chevy.
Things never change.
You only pass this way one time. -
@dale said:
Although it may be an Urban Myth, at the meeting that took place after Microsoft's announcement of Windows release, Gates apparently after sitting through a tirade by the angry Jobs was supposed to have said: " Well Steve, I think it's more like we both had a rich neighbour named Xerox, and when I broke in to steal his TV set, I found you had already stolen it."
Windows and Mac desktop flashback
Wasn't this made up for that movie "Pirates of Silicon valley"
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finally decided to try out kerkythea via X11
so that's what windows looks like?!
feels like the 80s and dot matrix printers...app seems nice though..
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re: this thread
http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=17082&start=0i assumed windows had already stolen this trick from os x but apparently not.. oh well windows users, maybe someone can write a ruby that will do this inside of sketchup (though it works with all apps on macs)
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Out of curiosity I went today through all the Mac options available at the Mac e-store (through their Finnish pages). I was happily surprised to find that Apple seems to have trashed all its lowest-end graphics options, and all the models available (including the Mac Mini and all the Imacs and laptops) now had Nvidia graphics, so in theory you should be able to run SU on any Mac now on sale.
Anssi
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@unknownuser said:
As for a desktop...I couldn't care less what it looks like as long as it does it's job. I'll bet that most people don't even notice their tower boxes
A friend of mine works for a small printshop in London. When Imacs first came out they had a surge of silly airy-fairy enquiries coming in off the street presumably because people walking past the shop, saw the imacs through the window and thought "wow they must be cool".
I'm really on the fence on this topic as in the past I've used and worked fine on new macs, old macs, good pcs, crap pcs and pcs so old I had to stoke them with coal. They all got the jobs done.
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