POLL: SCF Gallery- is bumping OK?
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@bellwells said:
I haven't noticed any bumping abuse so I say it's OK. I have bumped only once and it wasn't my thread.
OK Ron, once is all right
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@remus said:
Im guessing theyre referring to this thread: http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=2650
If it is that thread then TBH I'm completely against Jackson's original post. Green Toaster is doing a lot of different models, if you don't want to look at his output then you don't don't bother clicking on his thread. Much better that he is keeping all his work in one thread rather than making multiple threads and taking up more forum space.
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@johnsenior1973 said:
@remus said:
Im guessing theyre referring to this thread: http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=2650
If it is that thread then TBH I'm completely against Jackson's original post. Green Toaster is doing a lot of different models, if you don't want to look at his output then you don't don't bother clicking on his thread. Much better that he is keeping all his work in one thread rather than making multiple threads and taking up more forum space.
Couldn't agree more.
@bellwells said:
I haven't noticed any bumping abuse so I say it's OK. I have bumped only once and it wasn't my thread.
You bad, bad man! Tsk!
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Since I recently bumped one of my own threads for the first time, I have mixed feelings about this.
On one hand, people who missed the thread when I first posted it will now see the earlier pics as well as the current ones and (hopefully) will see some improvement in my techniques.
On the other hand, some people will see the same thread title come back up and think, "I've already seen that," and ignore it. I've seen people add the word "Updated" to thread titles to indicate that there is new content.
I visit other forums where this has been taken to extremes, and continuing threads have thousands of posts. These tend to be long conversations by a limited number of individuals, and I ignore them. Other forums have strict "new content, new post" rules. This seems to work ok, especially if the forum software allows you to view all the posts of a specific user. Since the SketchUcation forum allows that, the rule would be reasonable here.
In the end, I think we need a ruling by forum management. I don't particularly care which way it goes, but it would be nice to have a guideline so no one gets offended...
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That's why we have a corner bar, people can use this place to voice their concerns and observations. Trust me we are watching this thread and in my case even participating, if we see that there is a real problem that needs our attention we will definatly impose a change or in this case a rule. Having said this we will let this thread go and see the outcome and if there is an issue based on the posted reactions then we will discuss a solution in the back room.
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Sorry,I dont agree with...'Well!..If you dont like it you dont have to look at it!!...Hmmp!..Sniff!!...So There!!!'
This used to be MY forum!...and I used to CARE about it!!
If a stray dog [speaking metaphorically] comes into my house and craps on my prize carpet am I going to...not look?.....hold my nose and not step in it?....and pretend its not there?
And seeing that particular thread has been mentioned [and there has never been a thread with a more prophetic name], how can anybody justify spending forty four [44] frigging pages on variations of an interesting but limited theme that probably could have been covered adequately in 5 or maybe 10 posts? -
@stu said:
Sorry,I dont agree with...'Well!..If you dont like it you dont have to look at it!!...Hmmp!..Sniff!!...So There!!!'
This used to MY forum!...and I used to CARE about it!!
If a stray dog [speaking metaphorically] comes into my house and craps on my prize carpet am I going to...not look?.....hold my nose and not step in it?....and pretend its not there?
And seeing that particular thread has been mentioned [and there has never been a thread with a more prophetic name], how can anybody justify spending forty four [44] frigging pages on variations of an interesting but limited theme that probably could have been covered adequately in 5 or maybe 10 posts?So his work is the same as a dog crapping in your house? **** off. He's just showcasing his work. Something he is obviously interested in and has put a lot of work in. If you're not interested in it then don't look at it, but obviously with the replies he has been getting other people are interested in it.
If he'd have started new threads for each of his cars then I could understand the complaints. I was one of the people who made a comment about the bloke who reserved a space in the gallery for his future pictures. But having a go at Green Toaster is ridiculous.
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johnsenior1973, you might note I was speaking metaphorically and commenting more about people's attitude to gross overbumping than this guys individual posts.
Im sure greentoaster is a nice guy but I think somebody should have tapped him on the shoulder, about 35 pages ago, and said 'enough is enough' -
@stu said:
johnsenior1973, you might note I was speaking metaphorically and commenting more about people's attitude to gross overbumping than this guys individual posts.
I'd even argue over whether he is bumping his thread anyway. I've just had a look through the last few pages of his thread and each new post has included either new work or he's developed his model further. "Bumping" is when someone posts a new post solely to get the thread back into the first page. That's not what he's done at all.
@unknownuser said:
Im sure greentoaster is a nice guy but I think somebody should have tapped him on the shoulder, about 35 pages ago, and said 'enough is enough'
To that I'll quote Green Toaster himself: *Thanks Rogue - I doubt I'll ever achieve your level of detail, your ability to create stuff with great accuracy and impressive creativity.
In contrast, my skill set seems limited, not very professional. But, I'll be the first to admit I'm still having lots of fun and I really enjoy my primitive, almost cartoon-like simple creations. I'm just trying to enjoy life - not taking things too seriously.*
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I've looked at the Green Toaster Thread (GTT) several times over the past months. I like that it's a long thread IE 40+ pages now. I mentally remember what page it was on the last time I visited and the next time I feel compelled to browse to that thread I find it and pick up where I left off or just look at the last few pages. If for example that thread were broken up into several topics I would not mentally keep track of my interest in several separate topics of similar interest. So the long and short of it is that I think we should allow for topics to grow as long as they want and as long as the posters in that topic find interest in and continue to post new material of a similar nature.
I think a topic with over 20 posts is probably rare and a topic with over 40 posts is probably very rare I'm just guessing here but I gather that most posts are less than 20 reply's and then they melt into obscurity.
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@johnsenior1973 said:
I'd even argue over whether he is bumping his thread anyway. I've just had a look through the last few pages of his thread and each new post has included either new work or he's developed his model further. "Bumping" is when someone posts a new post solely to get the thread back into the first page. That's not what he's done at all.
Doesn't seem like it, does it? Looks like he's just having fun. Which is great, as far as I'm concerned. As for people complaining about that thread's length: what of it? It takes neither special skill or effort to skip a thread. There, problem solved. This issue is a non-issue.
@stu said:
This used to MY forum!...and I used to CARE about it!!
That's your problem right there, isn't it? It isn't your forum. It's our forum. So it won't ever be exactly the way you like it. That's life for ya.
Seems you get two things confused, too. The question was: is it okay to bump your thread? You seem to be mainly concerned with the quality (or lack thereof) of the stuff posted. Which is okay, of course. Nevertheless, what do you propose then? SU is a very easy app to learn - therefor it attracts amateurs like yours truly. It's inavoidable that some stuff in the Gallery of a forum dedicated to all things SU will not be up to professional standards. As far as I can see, the only way around that, is to impose some form of selection. Someone will have to sift through pending posts. Tedious work, of course, but useful. We'll need someone with great taste, a thorough knowledge of SU, and great stamina. I suggest you - I have nothing but confidence in your abilities to handle this daunting task.
Well ... that's one approach. Another, as I said before, is to post good stuff yourself. Either way, put your money where your mouth is, rather than sitting around complaining and insulting other members "methaphorically".
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Stinkie, I can see why you may be a bit sensitive on this issue...and I can understand why you wouldnt like to see your own gallery post [is it your first?] sink into obscurity
Ok the 'My Forum' thing was obviously a statement of feeling rather than an actual belief or wish on my part. [The nuances of the English language can be devilish at times!]
Yes the forum is developing into a broad church and I think its maybe time some policy decisions were made re its direction...Is it just going to be 'All about SketchUp'......anything goes as long as there is no swearing, flaming or advertising by prospective Russian Brides?
I would like to think that 'the pursuit or excellence' comes somewhere into the calculation.
If this was the case I dont feel that blatent serial posters would be tolerated for too long.
And.... 'put up or shut up'? Well I post here in the gallery now and then.....my guess is that nobody posted more stuff than me in the old @Last gallery and there was a time when it seemed that half the mastheads on the @Last website pages were from my images...so mate, I have some form.
And the sad part, you know, is that the most vocal people here are often the least talented. -
@stu said:
Stinkie, I can see why you may be a bit sensitive on this issue...and I can understand why you wouldnt like to see your own gallery post [is it your first?] sink into obscurity
Uhmmm ... right. I'm a grownup. Really, I couldn't care less if my thread sunk in to obscurity. The only reason I post, is to get constructive feedback. "This is too big", "that is too red" - you know. Love that. Very useful. I merely posted most of my thingies in one thread to keep things tidy.
@stu said:
Ok the 'My Forum' thing was obviously a statement of feeling rather than an actual belief or wish on my part. [The nuances of the English language can be devilish at times!]
Careful now, Stu. One hair away from being patronizing.
@stu said:
Yes the forum is developing into a broad church and I think its maybe time some policy decisions were made re its direction...Is it just going to be 'All about SketchUp'......anything goes as long as there is no swearing, flaming or advertising by prospective Russian Brides?
That's a caricature. Why don't you lay off the metaphores and hyperboles and flat out tell us in which direction you'd like SCF to head?
@stu said:
I would like to think that 'the pursuit or excellence' comes somewhere into the calculation.
Well, it should. I aim for excellence. Am I there yet? Not quite. But posting here sure has helped to get where I am right now.
@stu said:
.....my guess is that nobody posted more stuff than me in the old @Last gallery and there was a time when it seemed that half the mastheads on the @Last website pages were from my images...so mate, I have some form.
Irrelevant.
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Stu wrote:
@unknownuser said:
most vocal people here are often the least talented.
Oh crap!! I just noticed my post count....
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Pete, after some careful consideration I think I should exclude you from that list
Seriously though, am I the only one that thinks the forum could be heading down the gurgler?"Uhmmm ... right. I'm a grownup. Really, I couldn't care less if my thread sunk in to obscurity. The only reason I post, is to get constructive feedback. "This is too big", "that is too red" - you know. Love that. Very useful. I merely posted most of my thingies in one thread to keep things tidy."
Hmmm yes....good one Stinkie!
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Thanks, Stu. Now, what is your plan of action?
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Plan? What Plan?...I just like going around upsetting people!
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Nothing more to offer than ranting, "metaphores", and easy irony then?
moving on
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@unknownuser said:
I dont think people do it out of selfishness, just through wanting to show their work without cluttering the gallery with new threads..
Some people do, some don't. On the old @last forum Gallery there were NO "personal gallery" threads, folks either had the manners to let others keep their thread active or the common sense to realise that by continuously posting in their own thread they are abusing the "last-post-first" system, unfairly pushing other members' threads off the first page before people even get a chance to see them. Regarding selfishness, you only have to look at the "most active topic" for several members whose topics are constantly on the front page to see who is more interested in promoting/discussing/bumping their own work than contributing to the forum as a whole.@tomsdesk said:
I don't see a difference to the forum...if someone wanted to "hog the limelight" they could just as well post a new thread as "bumping" an old one: sameo-sameo.
You really don't see a difference to the forum? Until a year ago there were no permament front page topics, now there's several, all of which have been blatantly bumped by their author when they dropped off the front page. As bumping has apparently become the only way to get your "fair" share of recognition here, I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't 10 or more such perma-topics in a year's time from now, effectively halving the exposure that the Gallery should provide.@johnsenior1973 said:
"Bumping" is when someone posts a new post solely to get the thread back into the first page. That's not what he's done at all.
(Re: GreenToaster) Isn't it? It's certainly a convenient side-effect that every time you post in your own thread it gets another day's exposure and 100 views though isn't it? One member recently added a post 2 months after the most recent post in their thread just to say that they had edited their first post; what possible reason could you have for adding a post to say you've edited your first post other than "this'll get me another few days on the front page"? If it was just about improving the quality of the thread, the edit did that, but the post referring to it was a bump, plain and simple.@unknownuser said:
I think a topic with over 20 posts is probably rare and a topic with over 40 posts is probably very rare I'm just guessing here but I gather that most posts are less than 20 reply's and then they melt into obscurity.
That's exactly my point. Before the last-post-first system was adopted (on the @last forums) it was talent alone that decided how many views a topic received as fans would eagerly follow them whether they were on the front page or the 20th. No great topic "melted into obsurity" as members frequently linked back to them in other threads, ensuring great work or advice was passed on as long as it was relevant. For several years after the system was changed, good manners and common sense meant that even the most talented authors let their topics slip off the front page when others stopped posting. That's sadly no longer the case IMO.@unknownuser said:
As for people complaining about that thread's length: what of it? It takes neither special skill or effort to skip a thread. There, problem solved. This issue is a non-issue.
To address your last statement first, currently 40% of respondants don't think it's a non-issue, so it's a little arrogant to dismiss it. I know you didn't mean it that way, but that's how it came across. Regarding your first point, you're right, it doesn't take much effort to skip a thread, but it does to skip 5 or 6 threads and more so to keep checking the second page to see if any good work has been pushed back there before anyone even had a chance to see it. If the current trend continues a year from now I'll be checking the 3 and fourth pages to just get a glimpse of new work from new members.@unknownuser said:
As far as I can see, the only way around that, is to impose some form of selection.
Far from it. A sticky outlining forum etiquette would be one way, removing the last-post-first system would be another (not ideal IMO), but probably the most effective would be for more people who would rather not see a tiny minority claim the SCF Gallery front page as their territory to speak up and vote here.I'd like to make one thing clear, my concern isn't rooted in some sense of possession of the SCF forums, or nostalgia for the good old days (although I am nostalgic haha), or a personal feud with any individuals or dislike for their work. It's simply about returning the SCF Gallery to being somewhere where everyone can get their fair share of recognition rather than have their work shoved aside by a minority who cannot stand to be out of the limelight for more than a few hours. They are the ones who are (intentionally or not) claiming the forum as their own.
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Im still not convinced. For me it comes down to the fact that if you post good work in the gallery you get recognised for it. As long as thats happening im happy.
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