Student-Teacher Relationships
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stands back and watches thread drifting off topic
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Anyway back to topic.
Trust is a big thing. Parents trust the school and teachers to keep their children safe while they at school. Its the same with youth workers and nurses, policeman etc thats why in this country we have the Criminal Record Check.
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While on the topic check out this Swedish film called All Things Fair.
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The CRB checks, while basically a good idea have simply turned into a free lunch for jobsworthy civil servants to justify their existence.
I used to be in teaching, so I'd already been CRBed. You'd think that if you were clean, that would be it....much too simple for the civil service.
I'm also in the local Rotary club. It turns out we need to be rechecked for each and every involvement we have with the "vulnerable".
So you deliver parcels of Christmas goodies to needy old folk...CRB check. You chauffeur underpriviliged kids to the zoo...CRB check.
Organise a day out for the old or disabled...CRB check. Just how many times do you need to prove yourself "clean"...and is it any wonder there's a backlog?Back to the original question. Yes, I think that's fair. Teachers hold a position of both responsibility and authority, so such safeguards need to be in place to prevent abuse of such a position. Any genuine relationship is going to stand the test of time. All that is required to circumvent the discrepancy is that either the teacher or the student move somewhere else....something that the student will inevitably do anyway.
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@alan fraser said:
I used to be in teaching, so I'd already been CRBed. You'd think that if you were clean, that would be it....much too simple for the civil service.
I'm also in the local Rotary club. It turns out we need to be rechecked for each and every involvement we have with the "vulnerable".
So you deliver parcels of Christmas goodies to needy old folk...CRB check. You chauffeur underpriviliged kids to the zoo...CRB check.
Organise a day out for the old or disabled...CRB check. Just how many times do you need to prove yourself "clean"...and is it any wonder there's a backlog?I agree, why can't we have one check evry three years and that is it. I'm a youth leader at church and a youth leader at a summer camp i need two different checks.
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On the subject of CRB checks, ive been CRBed a few times, and im only 17.
Back on topic, alan, i agree that measures need to be taken to prevent the abuse of the authority that teachers hold, although i think this should be an internal matter, to be dealt with by the schools, rather than a matter for the courts.
Putting someone on the sex offenders list can severely restrict your choice of job, and i think thats disproportionate to the 'offence' that has been committed.
p.s. Im refering to relationships between otherwise legal people, not the abuse of under age children.
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Hehe, I married a former student, so I'm now keeping quiet.
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@remus said:
Putting someone on the sex offenders list can severely restrict your choice of job, and i think thats disproportionate to the 'offence' that has been committed.
p.s. Im refering to relationships between otherwise legal people, not the abuse of under age children.
Just because a teacher can be liable to be put on the Sex Offenders Register for a relationship with a student, it doesn't mean that they all will. IMO it's just a measure so that a serious offender who has had sexual relationships with many pupils will be put on the register, but a teacher who has a loving relationship with a student probably won't.
Put it this way, if a teacher is found guilty of using his position to coerce his pupils into relationships with many pupils, the relationships have all caused negative influences in the lives of the pupils and the teacher has also forced pupils into relationships with the threat of harming their education if they don't comply, isn't that worthy of being placed on the Sex Offenders Register?
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@alan fraser said:
The CRB checks, while basically a good idea have simply turned into a free lunch for jobsworthy civil servants to justify their existence.
Personally I'd no longer get involved in ANYTHING that required CRB checks. Like anything else put in place by the government the outcome is far too likely to be a bu**ers muddle, with me in the sh1t.
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The crazy thing is that after all the details you have to enter on the form they still get people mixed up. Teachers and others needing CRBs have been sacked because they got the worng details
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Remus, I'm not too clear on your initial post. Are you saying that if a teacher/professor has consentual "relations" with a student over 18 yo then they go on a sex offenders list?
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@daniel said:
Remus, I'm not too clear on your initial post. Are you saying that if a teacher/professor has consentual "relations" with a student over 18 yo then they go on a sex offenders list?
The offence is for students between the ages of 16 and 18.
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Johns got it pretty much spot on, except the offense is for students younger than 18, not just16-18.
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Well, that makes sense - I thought you meant ANY student, regardless of age.
Your Sexual Offenses Act 2003 is pretty clear - any adult in a "position of trust" who has sex with a child (younger than 18) is guilty of a sexual offense. This makes sense; although a minor might be over the age of consent, that doesn't mean they have the maturity to make the correct decision.
The term age of consent is often misunderstood, and is rarely actually used in laws - one has to read through the various laws to determine it. Many people think the age of consent is when they can legally have sex. Basically, the age of consent is when a person can consent to sex, but that doesn't mean it is legal to have sex with them. The difference is the charge and punishmet for any adult having sex with a minor; if the child is under the age of consent, it is sexual battery or rape (is there a difference?) and carries a stiffer penalty; if the child is of the age of consent, then it is a lesser crime (such as sexual missconduct) and carries a lesser penalty. Furthermore, some places are specific as to the age and sex of the "perpetrator" having sex with a minor who has reached the age of consent.
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@daniel said:
...that doesn't mean they have the maturity to make the correct decision.
Thats the bit i dont get. As although they are deemed mature enough to decide whether to have sex with anyone else they suddenly lose this ability when it comes to teachers (and anyone else in a position of trust, according to the law.)
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Remus,
Do it detect a underlying reason for this question?
PM me if you want to talk about it.
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@remus said:
@daniel said:
...that doesn't mean they have the maturity to make the correct decision.
Thats the bit i dont get. As although they are deemed mature enough to decide whether to have sex with anyone else they suddenly lose this ability when it comes to teachers (and anyone else in a position of trust, according to the law.)
But the point is that most people aren't mature enough at the age of 16 to deal with the whole issue of sex and relationships. Nearly everyone gets burned at that age. The whole point is that what is already a difficult and stressful time shouldn't be made many times worse by being taken advantage of by someone in authority over them.
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@tobobo said:
Remus,
Do it detect a underlying reason for this question?
PM me if you want to talk about it.
Nope, there really isnt any underlying reason. I promise.
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Ok mate, I believe you.
It can be grey subject sometimes.
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authority reflects the Law and the Justice
and somehow, a teacher, a person who has studied and has Culture need to be more accurately investigated than a person who has not studied.
That looks reasonably enough.
no ?
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