McCain vs Obama 1st debate
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
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Even if you argue the point that Ralph Nader is a choice you know you are only paying lip service, as a vote for Nader would be like a vote against McCain in your case as you have very obvious conservative values which would result in a vote for Obama in essence.Here's Nader's response to those who say a vote for him is a vote for the republican candidate.
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Eric, you never read my post properly, I never said a vote for Nader is a republican vote.
I said if you are generally conservative or libertarian (closer to conservative values) a vote for Nader would take away from the republican candidate as well as if you are a liberal minded voter that votes for him will result in a loss for the Dems.
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@bellwells said:
@fella77 said:
I'll admit..I do hear allot of people go out of their way to mention his middle name..and usually they are in the midst of bashing him when they do it. There are just as many ignorant people that will think he is a Muslim extremist because of his name, that will also not vote for him ( or vote for him) just cause he's half African American.
Gaganraj, unfortunately based on recent events.... in allot of peoples minds Arab does equal bad. When I was watching the world trade center be attacked I wasn't thinking it was the Swedes that were flying the planes into the buildings. I'm not saying it's right or fair..but in allot of peoples minds that middle name of his is pretty hard to swallow.
I agree. Although I don't think he's a Muslim extremist, I do question his loyalties.
Why do you question his loyalties?
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@david. said:
For the doom and gloomers regarding the collapse of the USA, this shows GDP, in $, of the G8 from 1970-2007. As of 2007, the USA, with over $12.4 trillion, is 3 times the next largest, Japan. That's despite 9/11, the war on terror, Katrina, Democrat congress, etc. Didn't bother with labeling the rest 'cause they're down in the noise somewhere...
[attachment=0:3aqlu36t]<!-- ia0 -->CountryData-G8.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:3aqlu36t]That's quite telling David. But why are we so poor then? Sure we have lots of things but we are owned by the Chinese. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
I am more worried about the collapse of the US economy on "Main Street" as they like to say. The middle class, the lower class, or what have you. The breakdown of the Constitution and civil society. The decimation of our military by pointless and destructive wars and the overextension of a chaotic Empire. I continue to see the US on a downward slide in those terms.
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That SNL skit is spot on. Palin is about as intelligent as a pen cap, and just sits there and parrots what she was instructed to say, and peppers in allot of great republican buzzwords. She reminds me of those full size cardboard figures of people that they put in front of a movie theater to promote a film...catches your eye, but when you take a close look theres nothing really there..it's just a decoration. Problem is this cardboard cutout in the right circumstance could be our president. Then we will be busy burning books, and praying over homosexuals so they will turn straight..maybe passing some legislation so we can soil our entire country with oil drilling rigs, and taking all the real fun animals to hunt off the endangered species list...oh ya and making sure that women who are raped and victims of sexual molestation are forced to have babies they don't want. Personally, I think McCain might have sank his ship when he tacked that dummy onto his wagon. I have more respect for him than her, but she drags the whole Republican party down.
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@daniel said:
@bellwells said:
@fella77 said:
I'll admit..I do hear allot of people go out of their way to mention his middle name..and usually they are in the midst of bashing him when they do it. There are just as many ignorant people that will think he is a Muslim extremist because of his name, that will also not vote for him ( or vote for him) just cause he's half African American.
Gaganraj, unfortunately based on recent events.... in allot of peoples minds Arab does equal bad. When I was watching the world trade center be attacked I wasn't thinking it was the Swedes that were flying the planes into the buildings. I'm not saying it's right or fair..but in allot of peoples minds that middle name of his is pretty hard to swallow.
I agree. Although I don't think he's a Muslim extremist, I do question his loyalties.
Why do you question his loyalties?
Daniel, sorry for the tardy response, I was in meetings all day.
I simply don't trust him to act in the country's best interest. His association with William Ayers and the Wrong Rev. Jeremiah Wright is indicative of his allegiances and beliefs and character. You don't hear too much about this anymore, do you? The faithful media will make sure this story stays below the surface.
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Ron...you're out of control, so I will no longer comment on your wrong-mindedness: but I gotta say you're factually dead wrong about the media...starting a decade ago.
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@tomsdesk said:
Ron...you're out of control, so I will no longer comment on your wrong-mindedness: but I gotta say you're factually dead wrong about the media...starting a decade ago.
Wrong-mindedness...this is the best one yet, Tom. So now you're the arbiter of what's right-minded? This is laughable!
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Bellwells, Todd Palin (Sara's husband) was registered with the Alaskan Independence Party from '99-'05. The AIP has advocated Alaska become a separate nation, or become part of Canada. So, do you mistrust him, too? And if so, how could you trust his wife, when it has already been shown he was involved in decision making while she was governor?
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@daniel said:
Bellwells, Todd Palin (Sara's husband) was registered with the Alaskan Independence Party from '99-'05. The AIP has advocated Alaska become a separate nation, or become part of Canada. So, do you mistrust him, too? And if so, how could you trust his wife, when it has already been shown he was involved in decision making while she was governor?
Daniel, I did just a little research before answering, so I may be missing some facts. My understanding is that, while one of AIP's goal was succession, this platform was dropped when the founder died a number of years ago. They realized how futile this goal was. I wouldn't mind withdrawing from the heavy hand of the federal government given the current partisan bullshit going on right now! Apparently, the AIP is closely related to the Constitution Party.
Having said that, Todd Palin is not the one running for office. Michelle Obama has certainly said some controversial things as well. Presidents/Governors talk to their wifes/husbands all the time about national/state policies and decision making. Nothing new here.
To answer your question directly--no, I do not mistrust Todd Palin. It doesn't matter because I'm not voting for McCain anyway.
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@bellwells said:
Wrong-mindedness...this is the best one yet, Tom. So now you're the arbiter of what's right-minded? This is laughable!
Ron, that part of my post was just after reading (and deciding not to respond to) your "to dispise is right" comments in another thread...and should not have been mentioned here. Nonetheless, it is my one man's opinion.
That said, I repeat: a liberal press is long dead...those not obviously right-wing are motivated by and operate under self-serving agendas. That's why the News Hour on PBS at times seems left of center...which it really isn't.
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@tomsdesk said:
That said, I repeat: a liberal press is long dead...those not obviously right-wing are motivated by and operate under self-serving agendas. That's why the News Hour on PBS at times seems left of center...which it really isn't.
I guess we'll agree to disagree about the liberal press. The press has been so noticeably liberal for so long that any shift to the center is perceived as conservative. It really gets down to ones personal politics, doesn't it? We all like to hear our opinions validated and therefore gravitate to those news sources which offer this validation.
I watch various news shows to understand the subtle nature of bias. It's there if you pay objective attention. You can see it in the body language as well as in the words.
Thanks for the comment about wrong-minded/right-minded. I read your post in the other thread.
May the Schwartz be with you.
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Weird. From where I'm standing, the American press looks very conservative overall. And what you perceive as "the center" is the far right to me, and to many of my peers (even to those who, in our political context, are "conservative").
You ever been to Europe, Ron? It so happens I'm going to New York next week. Why don't you return the favour and visit us when you're up for it?
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Like I said, the way one views the press is based on their political viewpoint. A liberal will view the press as conservative and vice versa. Human nature.
Stinkie, I went to school in Switzerland as a 13 year old and have been back 3-4 times since, the most recent about 20 years ago. I'm l..o..n..g overdue for a visit. I watch the Tour de France specifically for the scenery.
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Stink, your gonna be in NYC? Man thats a 2 hour car ride from me! We should get together and crack open a few beers!
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70% of Americans now agree that Bush is a disaster.
Just two presidents have had lower approval (Richard Nixon and Harry Truman) than President Bush, and none has had higher disapproval in polls since 1938. -
@fella77 said:
Stink, your gonna be in NYC? Man thats a 2 hour car ride from me! We should get together and crack open a few beers!
Heh ...
I'll have to take a rain check: my gf's got the 6 day trip planned to the minute, it seems (ein, zwei! ein, zwei!). It's a trip down memory lane for her (she used to live in NY), and I'm, errrr, luggage. I'm lucky to have been able to squeeze in visits to the Moma, the Seagram and Ground Zero (can't skip that one). And ... errr ... it's her dollar ... so.
Would love to attend Basecamp in a couple of years, though, and meet you and the rest of the people I know through SCF and the Podium forum. Errr, I'll take care of the beer, obviously.
I am very, very curious about the US. Shame there's no time to get out of NY - it would be interesting to travel inland. Though I'm quite certain I'll be experiencing something of a culture shock even without leaving Manhattan.
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You have never been to the states? It's funny that allot of people make NYC their first exposure to the US..talk about potential culture shock! It's allot nicer than it was 10 years ago, but try not to look too much like a tourist. You will love the architecture, there are cool buildings everywhere. Some of the best food is in the local mom and pop style places rather than the snootier expensive restaurants.... make sure you get some pizza. Oh, and not every city in the US smells like urine...just keep that in mind..and NEVER step off the curb unless your sure there isn't a taxi coming...they will run you right down and not even slow down!
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No, I haven't been there yet. Though I've wanted to for quite some time - from my point of view, it's an exotic and strange place, and therefore well-worth exploring. As for NY, well, as said, that's my gf's choice. The future has some major changes in stock for us (I'll remain vague, if you don't mind), and she wants to, you know, look back for a couple of days.
Food: obviously I want to dine out at the tackiest diner I can find. 'You want some gravy with that, son?' 'Yes, ma'am!'
Errr, we've deviated a bit, I think. Sorry, folks!
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@bellwells said:
Like I said, the way one views the press is based on their political viewpoint. A liberal will view the press as conservative and vice versa. Human nature.
True in some part, but a few years ago I decided to enlighten myself: so intentionally not so now.
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