McCain vs Obama 1st debate
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@teezer said:
Here are the results from the fact checkers:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_1.htmlI watched the "debate", but I found it terribly annoying. Politicians annoy me in general, and I'm not happy with either of these candidates.
I agree, they annoy me too. I think we should have a citizenry legislature; like the concept envisioned by the geniuses who wrote the Constitution.
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I too was disappointed in last nightās event (a gross understatement in fact). The only real debating I saw yesterday was between Barney Frank and Mike Pence on the News Hour. (Anyone else struck by Penceās image when he stopped smiling? He could have a Hollywood career easy if they start making WWII prison camp movies againā¦scary!)
(Before you write all this off as partisan, Hillary has always disturbed me: so I didnāt make up my mind about McCain until after he cinched his nomination: then changed his ways and rhetoric rather dramatically. Obama has just recently earned my respect and my vote for him rather than against the other guy.)
In general I think Obama acted presidential: never more than one hand on the podium, statesmanly erect but not rigid, engaging Jim and McCain and the audience as he spoke with confidence. McCain acted senatorial: a little angry, a little clenched to the podium, and not very engaging or confident about the facts.
Anyway, Iām pretty shocked by any of the pronouncements that McCain did well on foreign affairs: buzz words, catch phrases, and tired atta-boy politics. And, considering what a horrible state world affairs are in, I wonder at bragging about all the āhotspotsā heās visitedā¦it was quite counter productive to my opinions. The only thing new and interesting I heard was the idea of forming a new coalition of nations to deal with Iran (not sure excluding Russia and China is such a good idea but I feel personally they to often stop the UN from fulfilling their mission)ā¦but with his continuing harping attitudes toward world politics and Iraq (is there anything else besides Iraq?), it seems a pipedream at best (for him to accomplish, that is).
Then that bit about the bracelet: that is something a man does doā¦but a man doesnāt mention it.
Further, if this close to the presidency he canāt conceal his acrimony toward a fellow American who is just as close to the same position, how can I trust him to keep me and my family safe when talking to vile leaders of rogue states during a world crisisā¦?
On the other side of it, I was once again screaming things at the TV when insulted by the lame lies, things I was wish Obama would finally say for all of us:
āNo, Senator McCain, the Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan will come home with Honor no matter what we politicians, safe in Washington, decide to do next! They have served with Honor and earned a heroes welcomeā¦and no amount of political rhetoric can take that away from them.
āNo, Senator McCain, I understand itā¦I get it: I just donāt get it like you do! And thank God there are a lot of Americans who agree with me or weād be in even worse shape today.ā
He did try to slam the āMy friends, heās gonna raise your taxes,ā (McCain must not consider me or anyone I know his friend :`) but couldāve done a lot better.
As far as the VP debate goesā¦I hope Biden eats her alive, make her cry, and chases her off the stage. If that earns her a sympathy vote then the American people deserve what they get. Picking her was McCainās insult to the whole system generally and to all of us individually. And as a citizen...I took that move personally!
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A rather depressing view of the 'differences' between the two parties from one of the wisest heads in the middle east, Robert Fisk
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080926_robert_fisk_the_middle_east_is_not_a_complex_place/?ln -
..... watching the debate now as I write. I did notice that
McCain mentioned Ireland's low corporation tax as being 11%,
its actually 12.5%! Still it was good to hear this being
mentioned and hopefully a lot of executives took note
As for which one should be elected, I'm still on the fence.
I will give McCain marks for stating that spending HAS to be
brought under control but saying and doing are miles apart.
He has supported 90% of GWB policies!Obama, looks good and acts more sincerely and I think he just
MAY BE more sincere in what he is saying.From what I see we are looking at TWO candidates of well above
average IQ, this is good news. As for the VPs I have no opinion
as yet.I really think that the public's opinion of the VPs will have
a huge impact on who sits in the White House come the New Year
as I believe one of these people could be sitting in the White
House before the end of the term! I hope not, but I have my
worries!Mike
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It was interesting to watch, and I think Obama just came across to me as well spoken confident and I liked allot of his opinions and ideas about what his administration would do. Both candidates made good points but I thought McCain was talking a little too much about his past experience and doing some flag waving, and not answering the questions with at least something substantial about his plans. But when it comes right down to it politicians are all the same at heart, and with either winner it will be a wait and see if they do what they promised situation.
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This is bound to ruffle some feathers: the 800 pound elephant in the room is the fact that Obama has an ARAB NAME. This alone makes a huge difference in many people's mind, especially those undecided voters.
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@unknownuser said:
This is bound to ruffle some feathers: the 800 pound elephant in the room is the fact that Obama has an ARAB NAME. This alone makes a huge difference in many people's mind, especially those undecided voters.
Now there is a huge difference between undecided voters who are watching and learning so as to invest their precious vote wisely on the issues and then there is the ignorant, ill informed idiot who thinks Obama is a Muslim terrorist ....now you have said before that you are an undecided voter, which one are you?
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and of course Arab = Bad.
I guess our numerical system should be questioned by the average american as well...
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
This is bound to ruffle some feathers: the 800 pound elephant in the room is the fact that Obama has an ARAB NAME. This alone makes a huge difference in many people's mind, especially those undecided voters.
Now there is a huge difference between undecided voters who are watching and learning so as to invest their precious vote wisely on the issues and then there is the ignorant, ill informed idiot who thinks Obama is a Muslim terrorist ....now you have said before that you are an undecided voter, which one are you?
Well, Pete, I'll be voting for Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. Obama the Muslim terrorist, huh? Now, that's a stretch. You don't think a Presidential candidate having an Muslim name in these times is relevant? Taqiyya.
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@gaganraj said:
and of course Arab = Bad.
I guess our numerical system should be questioned by the average american as well...
No, but I have absolutely no regard for Islam. And I have no regard for a guy who has befriended William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.
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@unknownuser said:
No, but I have absolutely no regard for Islam. And I have no regard for a guy who has befriended William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.
Ron, you just said in another thread that you are an undecided voter, but judging from your comments you know exactly who you are NOT voting for, that kinda makes one a pretty decided voter in a two party race.
Even if you argue the point that Ralph Nader is a choice you know you are only paying lip service, as a vote for Nader would be like a vote against McCain in your case as you have very obvious conservative values which would result in a vote for Obama in essence.
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fyi, it was interaction with Mohammedan society that brought the crusading europeans from an intellectual, physical and cultural dark ages into the Renaissance. Western society was definitively shaped by those interactions. People do and say both horrible and wonderful things in the name of religion. Try and find some of the good.
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
No, but I have absolutely no regard for Islam. And I have no regard for a guy who has befriended William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.
Ron, you just said in another thread that you are an undicided voter, but judging from your comments you know exactly who you are NOT voting for, that kinda makes one pretty decided voter in a two party race.
Man, this login issue is a real pain. Anyway, I think in the other thread I said I will likely vote third party, although I didn't say who. These are important times. I think third parties have more relevance today than ever before. Witness the bipartisan bailout Congress worked on over the weekend. Mark my words, the essence of this bailout will be from the top down instead of from the bottom up. There will be lots of talk about confining CEO pay and that's supposed to make us peons feel good. There isn't a decimal SMALL enough to register the ratio between CEO pay and the size of the entire mess.
Anyway, sorry my rant got a little off topic.
Edit: you must have added to your post after my reply. I was not voting for Nader it was the guy I was responding to...I forget his name.
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Not off topic at all, it's all the same subject really.
I edited my above post to include Nader just before you posted.
As I see it you have more conservative values than liberal and in a race that really is about two candidates and two parties, your vote if only two candidates did exist would be a McCain vote, however with Nader in the picture your vote for him would be a lost conservative vote as the more conservative or even libertarian voters out there that do vote for Nader will in reallity weaken the support for a conservative based result. On the same coin a liberal based thinker would take away from Obama for the same reason.
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Ahhh, you see McCain make this an easy decision for me. He is not a real conservative and Bush turned out to be a big spender (and a major disappointment for me, acutally). So for me to vote for Bob Barr, the Libertarian, is an easy choice. If by doing so I help elect Obama, so be it. I think not voting your conscience is throwing your vote away.
Edit: Ross Perot's presence in the 1992 election is why Clinton got elected. Imagine how history would have change had Perot not been around!
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Well in that case, lucky Bob Barr.
(Can I send you an Obama t-shirt
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LOL. Thanks for the offer on the t-shirt. I'll pass, although I reserve the right to change my mind.
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The USA has had it's day and I challenge anyone to name a single country that looks to it for leadership.
They are on the brink of financial collapse and almost 60% of it's pre-bailout debt is controlled by China and other so-called emerging nations who also dominate manufacturing. Cities like New York are being sold off to foreign investors, many ironically from the middle east. They are obsessed with the threat of terrorist attack while being bled dry by a self imposed religious/oil war they cannot win and Afganistan/Pakistan is escalating. The war-machine that has propped up the economy for decades is rife with corruption and a dying industry. The auto industry American Big 3 are on the verge of collapse as are other industries such as steel. The housing sector has been decimated. They have alienated their free trade allies and oil/resource rich countries such as Venezuela and Bolivia are escalating anti-American sentiment while aligning themselves with Russia, who are rebuilding at an alarming rate and have recently upped their military presence in the Carribean to beyond Cold War status.
We are now a few short weeks from the presidential election and some people still can't get past the fact that Obama has a middle name that is associated with the Middle East or that God will be displeased if they vote for him.
Thankfully if John McCain is elected and kicks the bucket, Sarah Palin will be there to save the day because she can see Russia from her bedroom window. -
Paris, tell us more about yourself. Your bio is a little light. I have to say I agree with much of what you said except that the US has had it's day. We are the "light on the hill". Our most prized export is freedom. People risk their lives to come here. We do more good than harm.
You don't see any relevance to "Barak Hussein Obama" being a presidential candidate in these times?
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@unknownuser said:
You don't see any relevance to "Barak Hussein Obama" being a presidential candidate in these times?
But another angry and millitant white man that wants to rule by force and impose his beliefs on the world is exactly what we need?
These times call for composure, consideration, intellegence, and decisive actions, not knee jerk reactions, un-needed wars and a cold war mentality.
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