For crying out loud!
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Seriously? The librarian was even fired? Gee, that's ... bad. Taking away someone's livelyhood for not agreeing with you is, well, not a very decent thing to do. Maybe it's just me with old school leftist morals, eh?
I can totally see Palin having a serious talk with, say, Sarkozy, on global economics.
(Sarkozy, afterwards: "Une MILF extraordinaire, mais bête! Incroyable! Ces Américains sont complètement fous!")Speaking of which, economics I mean, if I were emperor of the EU, I'd be on a shopping spree right about now. I'd try to get my smelly paws on as many chunks of the American economy as I could.
Insurance, you know? McBomb goes to war, emperor Stinkie dumps his stock on the market. All at once, at discount rates. John would understand, he's all in favour of the free market.
- Stinkie 'Machiavelli' von Smellystein
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I am confident in that the Strength the América People have because of their History, will manifest now. It is Now or Never and after hearing your testimonials I would be afraid too. Still, be confident
stinkie, not bad idea -
I hate to interfere with the left wing love fest here, but the librarian did not lose her job.
Does anyone here understand what the Glass-Segall (sp?)Act is/was. It was a Depression-era Act meant to separate banking, insurance and brokerage. It was repealed under Bill Clinton. Admittedly, he had a Republican Congress, but it happened under his watch. Many smart people point to this repeal as one essential reason we're in this mess today. It allowed these Wall Street crooks to create these highly complicated derivatives and notional financial instruments such as credit default swaps.
This mess was further aided by Clinton's and Bush's "desire" to increase home ownership. In 1999, the Fed ordered Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to accept weaker credit from borrowers. Thus we got 97% financing and no income verification loans to name a few.
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@bellwells said:
I hate to interfere with the left wing love fest here, but the librarian did not lose her job.
All the better. Still, Palin tried to get books removed. Bad thing. B-A-D.
@bellwells said:
Thus we got 97% financing and no income verification loans to name a few.
Whoa! That's outrageous! No wonder you guys are in deep sh*t. I've been reading about the debts an average American family has for years, but until this crisis, I had no idea things were this bad. -
Ok..here we go...lets blame everything thats wrong in this country on Bill Clinton..ya, thats right it's all his fault were in this mess.I guess that brainless monkey we call a president, and his right hand man that likes to drink and shoot his friends in the face, and all his well qualified cabinet members that previously ran horse shows, that have been in control for the last 8 years..they have no complicity in this crisis. They are all done making millions for themselves and their rich friends, and bending the constitution into a pretzel, so they are going to walk away from this mess and blame it on the democratic congress and a president that was in office 8 years ago. What you might see as a liberal love fest feels more to me like the pain full truth to some...the same ones that assured me 8 years ago that Bush was an intelligent man, and that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Really...to blame the state of union today...a financial crisis that could be as bad as the 1929 crash..on one piece of legislation that Clinton signed 8 years ago? You need to stop drinking that Republican Kool-Aid, my friend..
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I like the European approach on 'seperation between church and state' more.
No word of god anywhere in politics. Neutral, And it should be like that.
I have the impression the US is promoting god as hard as the middle east is promoting allah these days.(sorry, I don't use capitals)
Not the best evolution of evolutions in my idea.
L'histoire se répète. -
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lol!!!!!!!!! Fantastic find.
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fella77, it's impossible to discuss these deep issues with someone like you. I suggest you do a little reading. You'll be a better person for it.
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Ron, with all due respect: I believe you over simplified the affect of that action 9 years ago and passed over a lot of history to get from there to where we are now...like the tons of turned regulatory backs (appointed by the current administration) who should have been monitoring what was passing thru a door that may indeed have been left open a crack back then.
Though I personally believe the scores of economists that say this whole plan is a waste and a windfall, making the big deal in Washington this week is similar to arguing how many sides a flat earth has. They seem to agree a trickle-up approach would work better. But I do hope they pass something big: because that takes away the easy excuse; assures (with a democratic congress and whitehouse) there will be investigations leading toward hell to pay; and, I admit, it faster helps my small retirement investment and in just 15 months I won't be among those having to pay for it.
Now...did anyone see the Palin interview by Katie (what a cutie)? Reminded me of beauty pagent Q&A :`)
VERY SCARY TOO! all thing considered...
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Hi,
Just a couple of observations...
I'm amazed that so many here actually want Obama to win just because of their intense dislike of "right-wing" politics. Actually, the present crowd are neo-cons which have very little in common with traditional conservative (with a small c) politics.
The point being made about how many "closet racists" who will not vote for Obama is laughable.
The amount of white left/liberals with a guilt complex who will vote for Obama just because of his skin colour must easily outnumber the closet racists by 10 to 1 at least.The fact is, as in most western democracies, there isn't any real choice any more.
We are all just faced with choosing between political careerists.
Our politicians belong to either the red or the blue party mostly because of the career opportunities they thought were best available when they first entered politics as a career choice.
It's about time that people give up on this childish view of giving the "other lot" a chance.
The "other lot" are no different from the present lot.
I need an option of "none of the above" on our voting slips.Finally, the illusion that Obama is a nice sweet liberal type as opposed to those nasty brutish war-mongers on the right in simply nonsense. One of his first moves when he got a whiff of actually being able to win this contest was to address the most influential political lobby in the US; AIPAC. Described as "OBAMA'S HARD LINE AT AIPAC", he told the group that he would do "everything" -- "and I mean everything" to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That chills me to the bone. By making such a reckless promise to the Jewish lobby he could quite easily ignite another world war.
Liberals who want to spread "democracy" around the world are every bit as dangerous as neo-cons who want to spread "capitalism" around the world.Regards
Mr S -
I generally don't "join" these political discusions but I have to fully agree with kwist in his opinion. To me, politicians and political parties seem much more as "interest groups" themselves rather than any way articulating the real interests of a population/nation/people/community.
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Hi kwist,
Your example of choosing between Pepsi and Coke is spot on.
Like the main political parties, you are being offered something that seems all sweetness and light. You then discover that you are ingesting a sugary chemical drink that will rot your teeth and if enough is consumed will rot your insides!
Most of the world does not want a one-world coca-cola mono culture.
Neither do I.Regards
Mr S -
Hi Mr. S,
I can't speak for the US situation, but yes, in Europe there is a similar tendency.
The philosophy of parties isn't that clear anymore, a lot of political 'wings' have blurry boundaries, even have overlapping opinions on essential topics with the opposite side.
More and more, the people don't vote for a political program but for a person.
This changes the way parties do their election campaigns: much more playing on emotion, image building, reducing complex material to slogans etc...No wonder that people loose interest in politics. We are being trained to choose a person, just like we would choose a 'product' ,overly marketeerd.
Politics has become consumption.The US situation is a ridiculous example of this. It's like having to choose between Pepsi and Coke or Madonna and Britney Spears.
No wonder that the cure to a disfunctional regime might be as bad as the disease. -
Mr. S,
I hear you regarding the choices being pretty much the same in a different wrapper, and the point about many folk voting against one candidate instead of for the other.
I also saw your point about ones guilt being a factor for voting for Obama based on ones guilt rather against him based on ones prejudices.Do I agree? nope.
George Walker Bush is a classic example of the extreme differences between the two parties, and had he had the house and the senate behind him on every decision our situation and future would be a lot more dire. What about the social issues? you cannot say that pro life versus pro choice is the same thing, or creationism versus evolutionism the same. Heck there are many very serious and some very personal differences between the two entities that make them very different choices.
But all of these differences are lost to a voting culture based on partizan labeling and not issues. I live in the most conservative city in the United states (Google Plano, Texas) and without saying the choice here is clear ... McCain. But when you meet these folks one on one and ask them why they are voting that way you get the idea of why this is a polarizing culture. The truth is they just do not know, they are Republicans by birth, location or just social conformity. Most of these really decent folk are very socially liberal and some have more closer view towards the left than the right, but that does not mean they would even consider changing their vote.
2004 was a classical example of an election that was based on voting against rather than for a candidate, John Kerry was a terrible choice and the Democrats knew it, unfortunately the barrel was empty as far as exciting and legitimate choices go, after Howard Dean's "Yee-haw" he was dead politically (what a shame we are so superficial)
And that approach failed, as GWB got re-elected. This election is not like that, McCain is running as a 'Maverick' a non Conformist, a candidate that can reach over the partisan restrictions and work with the Democrats, yet he chooses a very polarizing VP that would rather eliminate dissent than negotiate.
Obama is running as an agent of change, just words they say ... but is it? Can a candidate make a real difference? hell yeah, again look at the difference GWB was able to orchestrate. Obama will have an advantage if indeed elected, the Dems have the house and the senate and promises made during the campaign can indeed be implemented as he will have the support of the house and senate in making them happen, can McCain say the same?Regarding Obama's hardline at AIPAC, how different is it from McCains aggressive stance on Russia?
The way I see it is that 80% of the US voting block has decided their vote before a candidate was even elected, The republicans could have nominated Mickey Mouse and he would get 40% of the vote without thought and the same goes for the other side too. It's the undecided and independents that IMO are the intelligent voters the ones that are making their choice based on the candidate and the issues. I would like to say I am one of them but truth be told I would lean more left of any choice, however when Hilary was an option I was torn between her and Mccain on a few issues, until McCain changed his views on many issues to align with his base and I was able to make a clear decision, thankfully Obama got the nod and now my choice is solid.
Finally on your point that most folk will vote for Obama based on guilt rather than against him based on prejudices just does not even seem a reality, but then again I live in Texas, say no more.
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Kwist, that is not entirely true here in the U.S. There are fundamental differences between the Republican and Democratic parties. The Republicans tend to favor less government, less spending (although under Bush both of these have grown), fewer regulations, and more conservative approaches to societal issues (no gay rights, less fewer social grants, etc.). Democrats are generally considered more liberal, especially towards societal issues such as gay rights, affirmative action, and the like, as well as favoring stricter regulations on industry. In a nutshell, Republicans have the attitude that less government in peoples' lives and in business is best - they can take care of themselves; the Democrats feel the government is there to assist the people directly, and to regulate business (from harmful practices).
As to race in the election: I too feel there are many people who will not vote for Obama simply because he is not white. For some, it's an outright racist choice, for some I think it will be a subconcious decision. However, I thought that from the beginning, and never expect him to get this far. Obviously, quite a few people did not vote by race or he wouldn't be the Democratic contender. So, I am pessimistically optimistic.
At this moment, the one plus Obama has going for him - and it's awful but true - is the fact that our economy is crashing down around us. Regardless of who or what is at fault - and it's such a complicated mess that one can't point to one person for blame - the Republicans have been in charge of the White House for eight years, and in the public's eye, they are to blame. I think that is the real reason McCain wanted to delay the debate until after he had rushed to Washington and "fixed" the situation.
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Tom, I did skip over a lot of history, but I think the basics are accurate. I shudder at all the
"we need more regulation" chatter coming from Capitol Hill these days. I'm a laisez faire kinda guy and do not want more government oversight or regulation. Unfortunately, this is precisely what will happen. This is yet another step toward socialism. It is a fine line. Greedy mortgage brokers and lenders rushed to sign up anyone with a pulse because they could pass the risk onto Wall Street in the form of mortgage backed securities. The risk was not assigned to the risk taker. There was no regulation controlling this business model. Had there been such regulation would we be in this current mess? I don't know. I do know if we put this pricks in prison for a spell, this behavior will cease. Of course this means there has to be a law that was broken; thus here we are back to regulation...I also think the current bailout solution is not the answer. It rewards bad behavior. The House Republicans, the true conservatives Daniel referred to, prefer an federal insurance plan to backstop the crapping mortgages rather than the fed buying these mortgages and them trying to either collect or re-sell them.
We live in interesting times.
Edit: Stinkie, the amount of debt the average American has is disproportionate to their income/assets. We have been living beyond our means for probably 30 years now. We have come to expect the largesse offered by government and we keep voting for the candidate who promises us the most.
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@bellwells said:
fella77, it's impossible to discuss these deep issues with someone like you. I suggest you do a little reading. You'll be a better person for it.
Someone like me? What exactly do you mean by that, sir? Are you somehow suggesting that I am intellectually inferior to you, because I disagree with your opinions. I do allot of reading for your information, and like a typical right wing snob you feel your information is somehow more accurate than others, and your opinion more important than others who might disagree with you. How dare you question what kind of person I am. Obviously, I hit a nerve with you with my criticism of the current administration so you feel it's necessary to attack my intelligence and character...I guess my observations aren't "deep" enough to be valid. Maybe you should do some reading, other than the drudge report and listening to Rush Limbaugh spew his poison. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and though I didn't agree with you sir, I didn't attack your intelligence or character.
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@bellwells said:
This is yet another step toward socialism.
This made me laugh really loudly. Run for the hills! The Reds are coming! But seriously - by socialism you mean communism, right? I'm asking 'cause over here the two are not quite the same. I mean, I'm a socialist, but I'm not exactly a devout fan of totalitarianism (I spelled this wrong, didn't I?).
David, you been snorting coffee again?
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@unknownuser said:
I also think the current bailout solution is not the answer. It rewards bad behavior.
Yes but getting on a moralistic high horse is not going to keep our heads above the rising waters. "laisez faire" usually means, "leave us alone while we subsidize the rich with your taxes". That's how we got here. I would remain distrustful of these devils, but letting the whole system fail, materialistic and exploitive as it is, is not going to help the rest of us. As for the risk-taking homeowner down the street, I would rather bail him out than have a gang start selling drugs from the burnt out shell of his former home.
Of course, riots and revolution may come of it. Yay! Let's forgo our condos and man the barricades. Too late. The class war was lost, in part because the rich on the right figured out a way to fool almost half the population (out there in the fly over lands) into thinking they could benefit from being openly screwed.
Some good music could come of this also, as we ride the rails looking for handouts. "Will model for food."
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