I Believe (to address the complaints of last week)
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Alan,
I have found it is nearly always a complete waste of time trying to have a rational debate with religious types.
You are faced with the difficulty of discussing issues with someone who has "faith".
When discussing anything you are forever confronted with obscure quotes from their chosen "faith" book.
Logic, reason and evidence mean nothing to them.I did, however, once have a very long discussion with a close friend (he insisted, because of my non-belief) and after many, many hours of long debate he had to agree that religion was nonsense.
The end result? He lost his belief in Christianity. And I lost a good friend.
I know he blamed me for taking way something that he regarded as important in his life.
Ironically, as an ex-christian he couldn't forgive me for for that.I am an atheist, and despite this unfortunate experience, I am delighted that Richard Dawkins has at long last managed to challenge just some of the many absurdities of religion. This is not just some abstract argument to be won on an intellectual level. Religion impacts on all our lives on so many levels. I truly believe that the day mankind can break away from all these silly superstitious beliefs the world will be a better place.
Regards
Mr S -
HI ALAN,
there is a something in that link that cannot be healed¡¡¡¡ -
that is scaring modelhead
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I have to strongly disagree, Juan...I've talked to a lot of different makes and models of Christians over the years trying to resolve my true beliefs with my childhood tutelage: never met two who believed the same across the board (more often not much beyond my point).
(Red D.) Cheffey: beautiful!
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It works fine for me, Juan...but you are forced to watch a few adverts first.
I hope you can get it. The hate mail from those love-thy-neighbour religious types is hilarious.
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Yeh! Bruce! (Now we're set for the weekend :`) Add the word "zealot", yes: broadly defined, and I'll call shotgun.
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Modelhead why do you think Stinkie was thoughting about you as to be afraid of fundamentalistics?
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not fair Alan, i´ll have it another look
You need to be within the UK or the Republic of Ireland to watch Channel 4 programmes.
now that´s funny -
@juanv.soler said:
...the trouble is to make that truth a sort of common truth you have to believe¡¡¡
Exactly!...where all the scary lurks!
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Tom,
you desagree with me in that i say : no, there are no diferences really ?of course each one has his own belief. that happens all the time.
the trouble is that maybe some people try to make that truth a sort of common truth you have to believe ¡¡¡ -
great
thanks
we found it
good night -
I believe the Love is the most precious 'thing' in the World.
I cannot find something that I could compare it to.
Nothing can give my existence more value than ability to give, to share, to help.
When you give the Love enough space in your heart and mind, it can make miracles.It is not an easy way to go, therefore many find it unattractive.
It is a narrow route, cobbled. Not all will follow.My believe has deep root in Christianity, but the more I look into different views on spiritual world (many will deny its existence) the Love always occupies an important position.
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A long time question that I've had on my mind has been,
What Happened Before the Big Bang?
Paul Davies has an answer here,
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/big-bang.htmlI've read it, and will have to print it out and read it
slowly and maybe make a few diagrams as I do so. Mmmm,
not that I will understand totally what he is saying BUT
I am beginning to grasp his thinking.Mike
PS: ..... and if that made some sense, think again as the
BIG BOUNCE knocks it on the head!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070702084231.htm
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Magic. Yea, their are how-to books on that too. Yes magic always has had relevance to mainstream religion. At its root magic is about an unearthly power, secrets, wonderment. But their is little truth in it.
What I struggle with when I find myself wondering why people struggle with an obsession on the meaning of life is this thought.
For one religion to be correct. Would mean that all those sane, rational, educated, well spoken individuals who subscribe to the countless others would have to be wrong. Just like magic it is all about slide of hand, miss direction, entertainment.My view is that they are all wrong. It is not about obedience, retribution, sacrifice, damnation, heaven, some boogie man with horns. Not at all. How egotistical of us humans to believe that creation is all about humanity. If it were? I am afraid their aint no saving us when we atone for our self served existence at those beautiful pearly gates I have longed for, in light of the modern mans perceptions of respect, nature, community we all get the horns I am afraid. If you are so needy for answers? Looking to a head of cabbage as your God. And, you would be just as correct as all those others who think that they have it all figured out.
See our existence for what it is. Wonderful, loving, beautiful, complex, perfect. Rather like our Universe of which, our contribution/alteration remains impossible for us/you. So here on Earth? In the big scheme of things how much space do we occupy? .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of 1/10,000 th. No one cares.
Religion is all about Authority, exclusivity, gettin paid, loot & booty, numbers, masses, converts and such... All Human concepts. Focus on those and you live a life and death of disappointment.
I came into this world with no expectations. Look at the beauty I have been given and shown. I plan on leaving this world the same way.
GoD
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Magic: ...3. a mysterious and enchanting quality...
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A little late to the thread, but Alan, thanks for the links, I certainly enjoy Dawkins. But seeing as how Cornel doesn't, maybe he'd like this show covering a court case in the US on Intelligent Design theorey in the schools. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html
Another overview of the advances in the subject matter.
William
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Thanks for the links y'all. I got one, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum.
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I have a very old school friend John O'S that had a pretty reasonable
slant on religion. John was / is no saint, we smoked / drank and did
'other' stuff that was against the teachings of the Church and on some
occasions the Law of the Land BUT John always went to Mass every Sunday,
even with a major hangover!His thinking was fairly straightforward on the matter. He believed
in Insurance! We all begrudgingly pay for it and at the same time
hope that we never need it!Some 40 years later we are still friends and John still attends Mass
every Sunday! I suppose its what makes you feel comfortable and happy
that really matters. If religion makes one feel and act a better person
I'd say go for it. -
Good verdict in the Dover court. It can't be said loud enough of often enough; Intelligent Design or Creationism is NOT science.
Confusing Faith with Science is symptomatic of people who aren't clear about the distinction between the two and who, therefore, are in no position to teach either.TYpical simplistic hyperbole from the fundamentalists like Pat Robertson, saying that the people of Dover had rejected God. They did no such thing, they just rejected unproven and unprovable (in any truly scientific sense) religious propaganda.
Faith is faith; science is science. You can no more insist that the world is only 6,000 years old (as calculated by Archbishop Usher many years ago), because that is what the guardians of your faith tell you, than you can insist that someone is guilty in a court of law for no better reason than you just think he is...or voices in your head tell you he is...despite massive scientific evidence to the contrary.
Religion does have a place for many people, but that place certainly isn't in a science class.
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Now this is truly funny -- especially to a former philosophy major with cancer. Still not a convincing argument, however. I'll stick with science.
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