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    Capital punishment

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    • R Offline
      Ross Macintosh
      last edited by

      Don't believe that Remus. It is bullshit. If those sentenced to capital punishment were swiftly executed the costs would be insignificant compared with lifetime incarceration.

      In the USA where they have capital punishment they usually keep the condemned on 'Death Row' for many years allowing time for all legal options to have due process. Add the cost of incarceration + all the legal costs and yes the result would likely equal (or exceed) the cost of lifetime incarceration. On the other hand, if the Judge read the sentence and the dude was taken out back and a bullet was put in his head, the costs would be really insignificant. Bullets are cheap.

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      • R Offline
        remus
        last edited by

        Ross, this is starting to look very much like the conversation i had with bubba at the start of this thread.

        If it worked as you said then a huge number of innocent people would be dead. I dont know about you but i find that quite disturbing, especially if it was done in the name of keeping costs down.

        http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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        • L Offline
          linea
          last edited by

          Remus,

          I seem to recall that this was discussed on the old forum, I'll say again what I said then. The last person to be hung in Britain (in the 1950s) was "innocent" in as much as he could not be held responsible for his own actions because he had learning difficulties. He shot a policeman because his friend said "let him have it" meaning "give the policeman the gun". He was later pardoned, but a fat lot of good that did him once he was dead.
          To my way of thinking anybody that can take a human life is mentally sub-normal and should be treated. I know it isn't that black and white though. Granted there are also some thoroughly evil b******s in the world, but for them death is the easy way out. Keep them alive, treat them humanely and keep them in very basic surroundings. I reckon boredom and isolation is a really underestimated punishment.

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          • V Offline
            vieucaillou
            last edited by

            Hello !

            I'm against death punishment, however murderers should start. 😉

            http://escargot-archi.eu

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            • B Offline
              bubbalove
              last edited by

              I don't care... I'm all for it!

              "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Churchill

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              • StinkieS Offline
                Stinkie
                last edited by

                @unknownuser said:

                I don't care... I'm all for it!

                A society can easily defend itself against 'dangerous elements' by incarcerating those elements. Anything beyond that has the stench of revenge to it.

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                • R Offline
                  remus
                  last edited by

                  Well by selling drugs you do risk that sort of thing.

                  http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                  • B Offline
                    bubbalove
                    last edited by

                    He didn't sell drugs!! That's the point...

                    "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Churchill

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                    • R Offline
                      remus
                      last edited by

                      Ok, very bad misinterpretation of your post on my part, sorry.

                      It sounds like a very lenient sentence, and form the very brief overview of the case you gave it sounds like they deserved a far longer sentence, although i still dont think they should be sentenced to death.

                      In what way would society benefit through these people being dead?

                      http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                      • B Offline
                        bubbalove
                        last edited by

                        Well if you want to keep paying ridiculous taxes to keep these guys living... that's you! I will still vote for the death penalty!

                        "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Churchill

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                        • R Offline
                          remus
                          last edited by

                          Id rather the government skimmed a few billion of the defense budget than had to resort to killing prisoners purely for monetary reasons.

                          http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                          • B Offline
                            bubbalove
                            last edited by

                            It would be nice if we didn't have to spend billions on defense... but unfortunately we do.

                            "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Churchill

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                            • L Offline
                              linea
                              last edited by

                              @unknownuser said:

                              It would be nice if we didn't have to spend billions on defense... but unfortunately we do

                              Care to elaborate why we do? I don't want to start an international argument, but I for one don't want any more of my taxes going on a pointless oil war that we can't win.

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                              • B Offline
                                bubbalove
                                last edited by

                                Well if you believe what Bush says then we aren't in a oil war. He calls it the war on terrorism... but I see where you're coming from! We spend money on all types of defense systems for this country... internet, missile defense, security at airports, border patrol, etc...

                                Why you ask? The middle east hates us! They'll do anything they can to bring us down... (or do I have this backwards?)

                                "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Churchill

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                                • StinkieS Offline
                                  Stinkie
                                  last edited by

                                  Nope. They hate ya. Which, as far as I know, is due to the US's support to Israel. I'm no fan of terrorist attacks, or of any sort of violence for that matter, but I think there's a firm link between the US's foreign politics and, say, 9/11. I sincerely hope the next American president realises you cannot tread on sore toes without there being some retribution (that's a word, right?).

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                                  • V Offline
                                    vieucaillou
                                    last edited by

                                    @unknownuser said:

                                    Well if you believe what Bush says then we aren't in a oil war. He calls it the war on terrorism... but I see where you're coming from! We spend money on all types of defense systems for this country... internet, missile defense, security at airports, border patrol, etc...

                                    Why you ask? The middle east hates us! They'll do anything they can to bring us down... (or do I have this backwards?)

                                    I'm sorry, but you'r a billions miles from thinking in a civilisated world.

                                    Outside of USA of course. 💚

                                    http://escargot-archi.eu

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                                    • R Offline
                                      Ross Macintosh
                                      last edited by

                                      @remus said:

                                      Ross, this is starting to look very much like the conversation i had with bubba at the start of this thread.

                                      Not really. Bubba is pro-death penalty. I am not. I think the real issue is does society have the right to decide to kill a citizen for breaking society's rules? It should not be an issue of cost (as in theory killing someone can cost almost nothing if they'd just do it).

                                      I do not trust the justice system to get it right. As a designer of jails, police stations, and courthouses I know first hand the people involved do want to get it right but that it isn't easy. The best of intentions can still result in mis-justice. As our system has flaws it seems unreasonable to expect it to work flawlessly.

                                      Any of us can be wrongly convicted of murder. While the chances are very slim it most definitely can happen. Wrong place + wrong time circumstances can lead to a strong case that could tie one of us to a murder. This is probably more likely to happen to any of us than winning the lottery.

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                                      • B Offline
                                        bellwells
                                        last edited by

                                        @unknownuser said:

                                        Nope. They hate ya. Which, as far as I know, is due to the US's support to Israel. I'm no fan of terrorist attacks, or of any sort of violence for that matter, but I think there's a firm link between the US's foreign politics and, say, 9/11. I sincerely hope the next American president realises you cannot tread on sore toes without there being some retribution (that's a word, right?).

                                        Stinkie, do you think 911 was the fault of George W Bush's foreign policy?

                                        Ron

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                                        • T Offline
                                          tomsdesk
                                          last edited by

                                          ("the US's foreign politics" is certainly one of the big reasons given by those who done the doing...not saying I do or don't believe such, BTW.)

                                          On topic: I'm for bringing back the stock...let's say 4 or 5 hours a day, after a 10 hour shift working off some of the debt to the victim's family, then chained to a cot (so they can't hurt each other) in an abandoned warehouse somewhere with the rest of the scum.

                                          Of course we can't use the town square anymore, downtown revitalization and all: so how about two or three stocks in each of the McDonald's parking lots around town.

                                          http://www.tomsdesk.moonfruit.com/
                                          2.5D Trees & Shrubs!

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                                          • StinkieS Offline
                                            Stinkie
                                            last edited by

                                            @bellwells said:

                                            Stinkie, do you think 911 was the fault of George W Bush's foreign policy?

                                            Not just his, regrettably. Remember that Sudanese pharmaceutical plant Clinton decided to bomb? Or the missiles that Bush Sr. had shot at the centre of Bagdad? (I was 13 or so, but I was shocked at hearing the reasoning.)

                                            I think the perception of the US as a country that does exactly as it pleases, with no respect for international law or civilian lives, is severely p*ssing people off.

                                            The sooner the US realises that "the others" aren't the agressors, the better. Should I add I'm not an America hater?

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