Whatever happened to common sense ...
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... in the US? Don't take me for a US basher now, but, erm, in some respects, the US seem to have, erm, well ... become a tad strange ...
EDIT: when I read the article the above link leads to, "Culture of Complaint", which I read years ago, sprung to mind. And ... I just saw SCF got a member called "robert-hughes". Serendipity ...
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@unknownuser said:
enforcing new zero-tolerance sexual harassment policies and the fear of litigation.
There you go, its got b**ger all to to with sexual harassment, its just "its not my fault, don't sue me"
Its not just America, we're heading the the same way here in the UK.
It makes me sick.
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Hmmm ... same evolution here (the Mighty Kingdom of Belgium), though thankfully at a much slower pace.
People should relax more.
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This is very sad ...... Jeeeees the little lad was only
6 when this allegedly happened. I thought 7 was the age
of 'reason'. It looks like the stupid teacher that let
this get totally out of hand has not yet reached to age
of reason! -
I blame the lawyers, myself....and the pen-pushers that think teachers and other public sector workers have got nothing better to do than file reports and fill-in risk assessments. The teachers probably feel they have to follow stuff like this up, or they themselves run the risk of being sued for negligence.
There was a time when such members of the legal profession were branded as "ambulance chasers" and utterly despised, even by their own profession. Now they advertise on TV."Been so stupid as to climb a tall ladder without securing the base; and had the inevitable happen? Ignored a Wet Surface warning and fallen flat on your face because you were too busy texting on your cellphone to watch where you were going? Never mind, we'll get you loadsa money in compensation for being an @rsehole. Just phone Injury Lawyers for Morons"
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It's not just this type of ridiculous thing with children at schools, you'll find the fear of litigation seeping into many different areas. For instance, I have had a number of injuries from the active lifestyle I practice, and getting meaningful advice from a doctor is almost impossible because as soon as they recommend something, that means they're liable for any complications thereafter.
My latest was a grade 3 separated shoulder that should have had surgery immediately. Instead, my ortho specialist recommended that I see how it heals and that many people have normal lives without surgical repair. Well it doesn't take more than a second to look at me and figure out I don't lead a normal life in the first place! Soooo after 2.5 months of rehab I went back and said that it wasn't going to be sufficiently strong enough and I said I wanted to look into the repair options. Well he agreed at this point (probably because I said I wanted to have this done) and we looked at the options. Turns out a few of the latest techniques were no longer viable because it was two plus months after the initial injury!! So we did the "golden standard" surgery, and I've been rehabbing since. That means it's been months and months and months of sidelined from the injury because my doctor was too scared to give me the straight up advice.
I've had this happen numerous times, and even getting a second opinion leads to the same non-advice..
It's frustrating and I totally blame the lawyers who make people believe that nothing is their fault and that everyone has the RIGHT to a benign life. Stuff happens in life, and as long as it wasn't malicious, then I say let it go.
So common sense...it's not as common as you'd like to think!
Cheers,
- CraigD -
First of all...
@unknownuser said:
Only in America...
Coen, look at Paul and stinkie's replies above. General statements like "Only in America" really piss me off and I take offense to it.
Second of all, having a young daughter who was sexually harassed on the playground almost 2 years ago, I take this one very personally. The kid in this article smacked a girl on the back side... was he old enough to know what he was doing???
The two little F&#*@#s who cornered my daughter and tried to shove their hands down her pants should have been arrested. They should have been expelled. They knew exactly what they were doing.
They did have their permanent record "updated" due to the incident. I don't know what it said however.I agree that lawyers are the cause of many pointless cases but there are the ones that should be carried out and don't that really gets me upset.
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Hi eric,
I can imagine when something, like what you described, happens in your personal athmosphere, it is fairly normal to take things seriously.
In the case of the article that Stinkie brought up, it seems though that the actions of the boy were less grave and the reaction a little out of proportion. But we don't know as we weren't there.
In general terms I would agree with the fact that the USA sometimes seems to be moralising about things like that. I have no problem with that as long as it is within the right proportions.
It would be crazy that the 'spanking kid' would have a life time criminal record (=stigma) to carry around for typical 'childish' behaviour you can witness on every playground daily.
I don't think what the brat did in the story (=hitting) should be considered a sexual offense.
There are other means of punishing brats for typical bad behaviour one can expect from some juveniles.Actual sexual harrassment off course is a different thing...
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This is not gonna make me very popular, but to hell with: I've felt up other kids when I was still a kid. Yup! In return, they felt me up. We had a blast.
Why did we do it? Out of curiosity - and partly because we knew that it was an adult, "forbidden" thing to do. I kinda liked to do what I wasn't supposed to, and so did my peers. We turned out okay.
We may not be comfortable with the thought, but kids do explore each other's bodies. It's just a part of growing up. Now, do they experience sexual excitement while touching each other or themselves? I wouldn't be surprised if they did. They ain't dolls.
This is NOT a comment on what happened to your girl, Boo.
How do I put this so that no-one gets angry? From where I'm standing, the US do seem like a, erm, eh, well ... puritan country at times.
I'm relatively certain many Europeans feel the same way. -
I don't really want to bite off more than I can chew but I know we aren't the only country that deals with things in a unusual manner! Some countries would've done a lot worse to this kid...
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Possibly. But that doesn't make the way that kid was treated okay. Calling the police because one kid slaps the other on the behind, sorry, that's hysterical by (almost) any standard.
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I guess it all comes down to how one defines the term 'sexual harrassment'.
The puberty thing Stinkie described (who's not familiar with discovery and exploring?) is consentual (is this the correct English word ?) and in my little world unharmful.I think we will all agree that when it is not consentual there is a problem.
The way to react to that and to which extent is a cultural thing.
Some cultures would take the matter out in the open (legal action etc...), and some would try to fix things more discretely by not crying Wolf over nothing.There is no culture better than another, but I am glad to be part of a culture that takes action based on 'common sense' in the less damaging way possible for all parties .
I must admit though that even Belgium is loosing some of that common sense lately. -
@kwistenbiebel said:
I think we will all agree that when it is not consentual there is a problem.
I agree.
@kwistenbiebel said:
There is no culture better than another, but I am glad to be part of a culture that takes action based on 'common sense' in the less damaging way possible for all parties .
(...) Damn, what happened to the 'loose' seventies and eighties athmosphere
Oi, don't forget the nineties! Consensus was met many times during that decade!
Seriously, though, the world seems to have become a somewhat thougher place. People seem to be less ... forgiving, these days.@kwistenbiebel said:
I must admit though that even Belgium is loosing some of that common sense lately.
Are you referring to the "Fenomenale Feminatheek" thing?
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Kwist, i find it hard to believe that a kid of 6 will be deliberately harassing someone in a sexual manner, I mean they're 6 for god's sake!
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@remus said:
Kwist, i find it hard to believe that a kid of 6 will be deliberately harassing someone in a sexual manner, I mean they're 6 for god's sake!
I share your opinion. Kids are kids.
(Unless we're talking the rare occasion of a mentally ill kid trying to copy grown up behaviour in a violent way, but we have good hospitals for those(I hope)as they need help) -
@unknownuser said:
@kwistenbiebel said:
I must admit though that even Belgium is loosing some of that common sense lately.
Are you referring to the "Fenomenale Feminatheek" thing?
Yes, among other things.
(note: 'The fenomenal Feminateek' is a vintage erotic image collection of a famous Belgian surrealistic writer (Louis Paul Boon). The display of these images was forbidden by local community.)One of the major things that makes me decide we're losing some common sense is the way that politicians make new laws that already were covered by the constitutional rights.
For instance, Belgium voted a law against 'racist talk' (prison sentences etc..) while the constitution already described 'freedom of speech' to the extent people aren't damaged (in Dutch called 'smaad'.)
It's a case of politics trying to gain more control over people and install a system based on fear to keep them calm and let them walk the straight line. -
Fear? Come on, hombre! You're not telling me you think anyone's afraid of our government, are you!?
As for the "anti racism law", that's just an update of the laws we already had. Useful in some cases, too. We shouldn't go overboard with this kind of thing, though. Take the "anti revisionism law" (it's illegal in Belgium to deny the existence of death camps during WW2). An abomination, I feel. I deplore revisionists, but they should be able to speak their minds. Of course, I won't protest if they get punched in the stomach while doing so.
The Feminatheek thing was ... ridiculous. The fifties are back! Be sure to go to church next sunday, Kwisten! Bigotry ... yuck.
(Oh: Boon was not a surrealist.)
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I saw that reply before you removed it, Kwisten. Van Ostaijen ...
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Exactly...I got those two mixed up for a minute.
Louis Paul Boon was the guy of 'Kapellekesbaan' right? (romantic, rural writer)(sorry, way off-topic)
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Yeah. Not "rural", but close enough. We deviated a tad, indeed.
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