KT 2008 Echo Edition Teaser!!
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@frederik said:
@dzinetech said:
I'm not sure how many hours it would take for a KT MLT render to get anywhere near the quality of a vray render on the same machine but I doubt its worth the wait.
It seem that you're just ignorant here...
How can you state something like that..??
You might be a big fan of Vray (which btw is a very good render...), but claiming that it's not worth waiting for in KT proves that you don't know what you're talking about..!!I suggest that you take a look at the Comparison among Unbiased Render Engines at the KT Forum...
Seems like I touched a nerve and the KT users are on the defensive!
Frederik: the point I make is perhaps a generalisation on unbiased renderers yet it is hardly unfounded. Whilst apps such as Maxwell can produce excellent images if using a correct setup, waiting a week for that image to be produced at working resolution is a joke. Unbiased renderers are notorious for the time they take and assuming KT's unbiased setting works on the same basis using the same algorithms etc..., I can't see why it would be any different. I don't think this is a particularly unfair deduction based on the evidence of every other unbiased renderer and professionals who can't use them because of how slow they are. Am I to expect that arch viz firms will now drop vray/mental ray etc.. for KT Echo because it can deliver the same high end images in a time frame that is the fraction of a Maxwell render? I doubt it very much but I do look forward to seeing what users can produce with the new build.
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@dzinetech said:
Seems like I touched a nerve and the KT users are on the defensive!
I guess you did... But does that come as a surprise to you..??
@dzinetech said:
Am I to expect that arch viz firms will now drop vray/mental ray etc.. for KT Echo because it can deliver the same high end images in a time frame that is the fraction of a Maxwell render?
It's very clear that you have no clue about what render methods are available in Kerkythea...
Please note that KT doesn't solely have unbiased render methods available... KT has both biased and un-biased methods... That's why I - in my first post - wrote that it all depends on which render preset you choose to use...
I don't know any other render engines capable of having both biased and unbiased methods available...Didn't you take a look at the Comparison among Unbiased Render Engines thread...?!?
On page 2 you'll see that for that particular scene, KT beat Vray in speed...@dzinetech said:
I do look forward to seeing what users can produce with the new build.
And I'm sure that you'll get a pleasant surprise...
Just one final comment...
@unknownuser said:
Besides, here's a small lesson about unbiased rendering:
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Unbiased rendering was first introduced back in 1986. Yes!
It was not introduced by a commercial renderer. Just marketed
nicely (but this is just my opinion). -
Writing an unbiased renderer is simpler than writing a biased
one! Yes! Developing a path tracer or even Kelemen's MLT is easier
than writing photon mapping. -
There are many more unbiased renderers that you can think off!
Virtually all ray tracers can turn to unbiased rendering relatively
easily. Sunflow for example can operate in path tracing mode.
Overall! I see users reproducing the same information found in
commercial leaflets but never digging a bit more in theory or.. history! -
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Sorry Frederic but these comparison are biased. They actually do not paint the good picture. Look at this render on the Vray forum.
http://asgvis.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=90&topic=3351.0
Now that render took less than 10 minutes. How do I know is because i know the artist. Now compare that little pot and complexity of that scene on the Vray forum. -
Sepo, I'm not sure you've read what I wrote...
@frederik said:
On page 2 you'll see that for that particular scene, KT beat Vray in speed...
I can only repeat... for that particular scene...
I know Vray very well and also the superior render quality and speed...
And I also acknowledge that Vray will beat KT in many scenes, but again it all depends on the render preset used... -
That is exactly my point Frederik. It all depends on the presets. This guy uses special preset to render exterior images in less than 10min. Normally ordinary user would use standard one and it could take 40 minutes. So we should just stop these comparisons as they are fruitless.
As far as that particular scene again I bet you this guy can render it in seconds. -
@sepo said:
That is exactly my point Frederik. It all depends on the presets.
Exactly...
Not to forget the person using the render application... Your friend being a very good example...
@sepo said:
So we should just stop these comparisons as they are fruitless.
I fully agree...!
But if you've noticed, this thread wasn't initiated as a render comparison...
All we wanted was to show some of the new functions and capabilities in KT2008... -
Glad we agree on this.
Also this guy in the tread http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=4199&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
is not doing any favours to KT. KT is much more powerfull and better soft than he is presenting it there.Coming back to the main issue. New KT looks quite good with all these new stuff. Can you tell us a bit more about new material editor...maybe screen grab of the new editor.
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@frederik said:
@dzinetech said:
Seems like I touched a nerve and the KT users are on the defensive!
I guess you did... But does that come as a surprise to you..??
No and yes. No I'm not surprised that followers of KT will want to defend the software because they believe in it however I am surprised that you as quite a respected person in the SU community, can't do this without assuming I am some sort of idiot just because I don't think KT is the best thing since sliced bread.
@frederik said:
@dzinetech said:
Am I to expect that arch viz firms will now drop vray/mental ray etc.. for KT Echo because it can deliver the same high end images in a time frame that is the fraction of a Maxwell render?
It's very clear that you have no clue about what render methods are available in Kerkythea...
Please note that KT doesn't solely have unbiased render methods available... KT has both biased and un-biased methods... That's why I - in my first post - wrote that it all depends on which render preset you choose to use...
Again, the tone and attitude by this was not warranted. You would at least be wise to know who you are addressing before making such a slanderous statement. You know me back from the old SU forums (where I have posted renders using KT no less that you commented on) yet you seem so sure I've never gone near KT. How wrong you are especially as I have KT installed on this very PC.
@unknownuser said:
I don't know any other render engines capable of having both biased and unbiased methods available...
Well if you take off your KT tinted glasses and did a bit of research you would find that Vray is capable of this.
@unknownuser said:
Didn't you take a look at the Comparison among Unbiased Render Engines thread...?!?
On page 2 you'll see that for that particular scene, KT beat Vray in speed...Yes I did but it does not provide any information on the settings used for vray so the test is somewhat irrelevant.
@frederik said:
@frederik said:
On page 2 you'll see that for that particular scene, KT beat Vray in speed...
I can only repeat... for that particular scene... ;
I know Vray very well and also the superior render quality and speed...
And I also acknowledge that Vray will beat KT in many scenes, but again it all depends on the render preset used...You claim to know vray well yet aren't aware of its unbiased rendering capbilities? Interesting...
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@sepo said:
Also this guy in the tread http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=4199&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
is not doing any favours to KT. KT is much more powerfull and better soft than he is presenting it there.Yeah I saw it, but decided not to post any further comments in that thread long time ago...
@sepo said:
Coming back to the main issue. New KT looks quite good with all these new stuff. Can you tell us a bit more about new material editor...maybe screen grab of the new editor.
Hhhmmmm... Unfortunately Giannis have told us not to...
He's OK that we post renders made with KT2008, but don't want any screen grab of the material editor...
Sorry... -
Shame as that would be much more interesting teaser
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@dzinetech said:
No and yes. No I'm not surprised that followers of KT will want to defend the software because they believe in it however I am surprised that you as quite a respected person in the SU community, can't do this without assuming I am some sort of idiot just because I don't think KT is the best thing since sliced bread.
I'm really sorry to see that you have interpreted my postings this way...
That was definitely NOT my intention... I'm really sorry about that..!!
@dzinetech said:
Again, the tone and attitude by this was not warranted.
I really don't understand how you can interpret my responses this way...
I guess it has something to do with the fact that this is a written conversation and not the two of us sitting in a bar having a friendly discussion, where you could see the body-language, the glint in the eye etc...
Although I tried to write it and at the same time use as many smileys as possible...@dzinetech said:
You would at least be wise to know who you are addressing before making such a slanderous statement. You know me back from the old SU forums (where I have posted renders using KT no less that you commented on) yet you seem so sure I've never gone near KT. How wrong you are especially as I have KT installed on this very PC.
I admit that I don't remember you in person... Sorry about that...
I responded the way I did because I felt you didn't know anything about KT based on the statements you made...
But again I'm really sorry to see that you interpret this the way you do...I haven't tried to be rude or anything...!!
@dzinetech said:
Well if you take off your KT tinted glasses and did a bit of research you would find that Vray is capable of this.
OK... I can read the sarcasm between the lines here...
But no... I didn't know about that, cause you're right... I'm much deeper involved in KT and don't spend much time on other render applications...
But thanks for the info...@dzinetech said:
Yes I did but it does not provide any information on the settings used for vray so the test is somewhat irrelevant.
OK... That's a fair argument...
@dzinetech said:
You claim to know vray well yet aren't aware of its unbiased rendering capbilities? Interesting...
Yes - I claim that I know Vray very well... And Yes, I didn't know...
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(sight)
DzineTech, if you don't like FREE GOOD renderers, just don't use them
Do you REALLY think that if Jenujacob would have shown the quality of the renderings of the new KT version, he would have posted these images ?
And don't forget that the KT team is developing a software that you could easily be charged a several hundred bucks for. -
@didier bur said:
(sight)
DzineTech, if you don't like FREE GOOD renderers, just don't use them
Do you REALLY think that if Jenujacob would have shown the quality of the renderings of the new KT version, he would have posted these images ?
And don't forget that the KT team is developing a software that you could easily be charged a several hundred bucks for.Thats why I dont use it...
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No comment. No time to loose with you.
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To see a few more renders made with KT 2008, you can check this out...
It's nothing fancy.The first one is a few details from a Vue5I render... and there are some SU renders, some Mental Ray renders... some KT renders... but mostly KT.
You will spot the KT renders right away as they will be the ones that are all grainy and unprofessional.
... odd that many people I've seen actually TRY to get the graininess in their vrays... even post-proing it?! ... but I digress.
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This argument ends here.
Dzinetech and the KT people, you aren't getting anywhere. Apologies have been made (hopefully). So just leave it at this and let the thread here get back to its purpose.Frankly, I haven't used any rendering software other than Blender's built-in since I'm 15 years old. I've learned 5 programs in the past year and a half and now I'm gonna give rendering a try
(Solidworks, SketchUp, CADKEY etc.)I'm going to give KT a shot. Can anyone make recommendations or help me out with learning it?
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@spacecow said:
...I'm going to give KT a shot. Can anyone make recommendations or help me out with learning it?
Go to the KT Forums and lurk and lurk... I do that too and learn a lot.
Also there are very good tutorials materials in PDF format.
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