Fitna

[JuanV.Soler]

Fitna.

Really these extreme right extremists dont know what to do next to be heared.

---

I hope extremists from muslims wont do much harm from this.

God willing.

[Mike Lucey]

Thanks Juan for bringing this to my attention. I found and
watched the fifteen minute rubbish film, Fitna.

There is nothing new in it, the same old broken record
from fanatical people

As long as all religions have majorities that are reasonable
people, things will be just fine.

Mike

[JuanV.Soler]

Yes Mike,
Have a good day .

[tomsdesk]

Don't get me wrong, the little I've learned about the politics and the politician behind the making of this film at first blush seems at the very least counter-productive...but the hubbub over the film itself brings to mind Coen's signature quote: "In a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell"

I'm just sayin'...?

[JuanV.Soler]

But it is not the truth though, Tom.

[tomsdesk]

Juan, with all do respect...and in the spirit of learning more about what you mean, I have now watched the movie again and can't find anything in it that is untruthful. Even the juxtaposition of the images with the text seems on target...?

(This is not to say I feel the intent of the movie's production is just, or even true...though I too am more hesitant to forgive and ignore as I learn more about what is behind all the violence.)

...I'm just sayin':

If a similarly slanderous cartoon about the prophet (+, if you will) Jesus was published, I'd bet it wouldn't prompt masked maniacs all over the world to a mad monkey dance on the top of burning vehicles while shooting automatic weapons into the air.

So, until the time enough Islamic "heretics" stand up to lead all those peaceful muslims (which I fully believe and admit do exist as a majority) into our "new" world (as did my ancestors of faith centuries ago, which made it posible for me to now publicly disavow the religious fanatics closer to my spiritual roots), I will be happy to see as much of this type of opposition as it takes to force a universal change of view...

...at least it isn't really quite yet "an eye for an eye".

[Mike Lucey]

Hi Guys,

I've often thought about this and have just read Austin Cline's
article on this very subject.

301 Moved Permanently

(atheism.about.com)

Mike

[JuanV.Soler]

Hi Mike,
I have been quarreled a lot about this too.
Here is a page to a Jewish bohemian who has a very interesting point of view about this.
http://www.jewishbohemian.com/about.htm

Tom,
for me it is untruthful for it does not tell the truth.
You have to read the Corán.
It is a whole book. All together.
You can not take a part as whole. It needs to be read all of it. As it could not be other way coming as a revelation from the High. could it be ?

As far as I have read it once I understand that the Corán does not invite to violence.
In fact respects the Jews and the Christians. "Sura 2.59

In my book, no one of the "Suras mentioned talk about those things.

There are Suras were it is been said : Make war against those who dont believe in God neither in the last day. Sura 9.29
or :
If you do not go to war God will punish you with a harmful punishment. Sura 9.39
but it is refered in the need of having to help the prophet Muhammed. Sura 9.40

Those were the times.

It is not a commandment.

This is how I interpret it.

[tomsdesk]

Juan, yes, I do understand the texts quoted are taken out of context...but by whom?

By self-proclaimed Muslims in the name of Islam, by presidents of countries, spiritual leaders of many languages, by armed masked men on so many streets around the world...all with the intent of spiritualizing, and thus justifying, specific horrific acts against humans/humanity and indiscriminate murderous violence.

I know also, at various times in history, all the evolutions of the Book have been misused in such ways.

And I understand there is a big difference between faith and desperation, between devoted and brainwashed, between towing the line with fear and walking a path toward enlightenment. I even get some of the reasons for the silence of good men. But I feel this battle we are in (between the various fundamentalists and all the rest of us...worldwide) will continue to get worse until men of faith rise up and cleanse their own house(s).

Maybe it is wrong-minded of me to applaud when such "rightous" quotations are thrown back in the public's face with equally "unrightous" intent, but how else will we in the middle find common ground to compromise and start fighting together: shouldn't we each have the other's fanatics to fear...?

[JuanV.Soler]

I think we have to be patient Tom.
And not to answer the provocations made by those people.
It does not do any good but encourage them.

Hopefully Barak Obama is going to win the USA elections.
Things will change.

[tomsdesk]

I certainly hope you are right...even knowing it will take many more than one man.

[JuanV.Soler]

Sure Tom,
you and me included