Osama bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad Pakistan
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Revolutionary war was not a clear win; America was split as loyalists, neutralists and patriots, and France came to the rescue.
War of 1812 ended in a treaty…no win.
Civil war…both were American…hello no win when you fight yourself.
Spanish American war, another treaty, however if I was was to split hairs I'd probably give this to you.
Northwest Indian war, serious, white settlers versus Native Americans…hmm...got turkey?
Franco-American war, aka the quasi-war. Undeclared…so not a war.
Half war…huh?
Kris, I also know better than to debate/argue with a patriot/conservative, so let's agree to disagree. You are using the young soldier patriot card now (as effective as a racist card) so no matter what I will seem anti-American if I continue.
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I thought that a win comes when the other side "gives up".:) America's best win, and perhaps most brutal, was over Japan in WWII. Best because to our credit, was America's contribution to Japan's recovery.
The crowds, and cheers, disturbing to some, but a very human reaction.
To some people's way of thinking, we lost Afghanistan, because after helping to kick the USSR out, we forgot to aid in Afghanistan's recovery.
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From what I read, Bin Laden no longer posed any real threat. From being a military leader to be reckoned with, he'd become a mere symbol. Thus his assassination was simply a pr thing. Violating another states' sovereignity for one's personal gain - ugh.
Obama lost my respect. Big time.
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You're missing the point.
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So, you would have let Hitler go (if he survived) since we defeated the Germany Army?
Hmmmmmm....Maybe that doesn't make sense. I thought I was liberal.
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Maybe we should have tried to extradite bin Laden. I'll bet Pakistan knew that if we found OBL that the US would do what it did.
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@solo said:
Revolutionary war was not a clear win; America was split as loyalists, neutralists and patriots, and France came to the rescue.
War of 1812 ended in a treaty…no win.
Civil war…both were American…hello no win when you fight yourself.
Spanish American war, another treaty, however if I was was to split hairs I'd probably give this to you.
Northwest Indian war, serious, white settlers versus Native Americans…hmm...got turkey?
Franco-American war, aka the quasi-war. Undeclared…so not a war.
Half war…huh?
Kris, I also know better than to debate/argue with a patriot/conservative, so let's agree to disagree. You are using the young soldier patriot card now (as effective as a racist card) so no matter what I will seem anti-American if I continue.
Choke, cough.
Revolutionary War - Before the war there was no independent nation known as the United States. After, there was a country known as the UNITED States of America. All British troops left. We made our own laws without British help. We no longer paid British taxes. A German named Baron Von Stueben who showed up to drill American troops said, "You say to your soldier, 'Do this' and he does it. But I am obliged to say to the American, 'This is why you ought to do this' and then he does it." - Baron von Steuben. Then there was the young French teenager, the Marquis de Lafayette who became a 19-year-old Major General in the American Army. Seems like a ploy to generate some limited French support. However, battles are not all one on the battlefield. They are also won through alliances.War of 1812. Lets look at one of the major battles for some perspective. At the Battle of New Orleans under the Overall Command of Andrew Jackson the Brits took casualties of 2459 (killed wounded missing)while the ragtag American Army and a French Pirate had total casualties of 333. End result, treaty or no treaty, the Brits went home in disarray.
Moving on.Civil War - hello, the Union of states stood. That was the major condition of success. Without that we would now be the Disunited States of America rather than the United States of America. United we stand.
Spanish American War - Lets be real. The Spanish fleet was destroyed at Manila in the Philippines. And Teddy Roosevelt rode up San Juan Hill in Cuba. In both cases Spanish Forces were totally destroyed and the Spanish abandoned their former colonies. A relative, Colonel Alexander Leroy Hawkins, leading the 10th Pennsylvania volunteer infantry died of cancer and was pickled in a whiskey barrel so he could return home to a parade attended by 10,000 well wishers. The treaty was just the runner up medal for the sake of Spanish pride. They certainly do not count it as a victory.
Northwest Indian War - We wond that based on superior technology and resources. I grant you that. However, the native Americans fought with inside lines and a short supply train which is a tremendous advantage. I guess you are saying that war was not fair. I say if you fight fair in a war you are doing it all wrong and endangering your own people.
Franco American War. Hmmm that was an unsuccessful attempt at collecting a bad debt on the part of the French. We borrowed money from the French Crown during our revolution and when France changed hands and became a Republic we didn't feel a need to pay them because they were not involved in the original deal. I am not going to count an unsuccessful attempt at repossession as a loss. Not long after we even bought the entire Louisiana territory from the French for a song.
OK where were we.
The half war - That is really the same conflict as the Franco American war which, as we said, was more of a debt collection scheme componded by the fact that the French were mad because we had made up with the Brits who the French were really fighting. We conquered 85 of the French military while loosing only one of our own. That almost sounds like a total victory except that we lost 2000 merchant vessels some of which were barely much larger than rowboats. We suffered serious economic loss but pound-for-pound we beat the crap out of the French Navy
Yes, I served and yes I could possibly be called a patriot, but certainly not of the moronic tea party variety. However Pete, I don't think your weak semantic argument gives you a peg leg to stand on.
Regarding Mike's comment, if someone had blown up 3000 British citizens, don't you think the SAS would double tap them without a second thought. What about the Malvinas Islands that the Brits took from the Argentines. Calling small Islands off the coast of South America where few Brits could ever find them is a stretch, but you snt in the Royal Marines, your Ghurka proxy fighters, and the and the SAS just for the sake of British pride.
Can't you guys just stop for a moment and realize that killing 3000 people (Americans and otherwise) is not going to be received well and not deserving of turning the other cheek? That is not exactly jingoism.
--Roger
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@honoluludesktop said:
Maybe we should have tried to extradite bin Laden.
That would've been better, yes. Though possibly not from Obama's point of view. Whatever the route taken - trial/no trial, trial in the US/trial in The Hague, incarceration/execution- the outcome would've been messy. I think I understand why the Obama administration chose to go into Pakistan. Still, they should've not done it without Pakistan's consent.
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@unknownuser said:
Still, they should've not done it without Pakistan's consent.
I'm sure they didn't...
Parkistan was informed, but because of their internal situation, they can't say it was approved in any way...
They had to turn their blind eye away from it and let the Americans do what they had to...
Why do I believe this...?? Simply because they haven't complained about the operation carried out on their land... -
When you think about it, the Civil war was not simply Americans fighting each other. The South had succeeded from the Union to form the Confederate Nation, then attacked the Union at Fort Sumter. They even began treaty negotiations with Mexico. If it wasn't for the industrial strength of the North, and Lincoln's commitment to the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, there would be two countries today.
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Only one question:
How do you know OBL was guilty?
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I think it is in these words from Obama after killing Bin Laden, as he assures, where it lays the behaviour of this actual President of the United States of América :
YouTube - JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE - .avi
JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE
No need of Court
No need of anything____________________________-
That is very hard. -
@srx said:
How do you know OBL was guilty?
Sorry... What a lame question is that...??
Should I interpret your question as OBL would be innocent...??
What planet have you been on during the past 10 years...?@juanv.soler said:
JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE
No need of Court
No need of anythingExactly... None of the above was needed in this case...
OBL was killed like a coward - just as he deserved... -
@srx said:
Only one question:
How do you know OBL was guilty?
Because he admitted it. If someone confesses to a crime; and every piece of evidence points to them having committed that crime, you've got to be utterly perverse to believe otherwise.
If all the evidence is wrong...and he falsely claimed credit for 9/11 just for the sake of kudos...more fool him.I'm sure Al Qaida will continue exactly as before. But it will now do so minus a figurehead that was previously held to be mythically uncatchable. The aura of invincibility just got trashed.
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Didn't he brag about it on tape?
Unverified translation however. -
Killing OBL means nothing. He was a figure head and that is it. The fact that he was sleeping 100 yards from the military speaks volumes for pakistans involvement. Nobody can say people did not know he was there.
Now the fact of IF he is dead.....No body, no pictures, or they are being doctored....? He is worth more alive for what they will eventually get him to say than dead. I find it odd he was buried out to sea SO fast. They say to respect muslim tradition? Who the hell cares at that point? Did he care about the 3000+ and their traditions? If he IS dead and not in some off the books prison we will never know for sure. We will only ever hear what they want us to hear and what the news garbage regurgitates for us. -
@unknownuser said:
Didn't he brag about it on tape?
Read the first comment anther the video...
Who made this video? My old mobile phone camera could do a way better.
To me it looks like a scene from Rambo movie
I watch South park instead of news. There is far more truth in it. http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152966/ive-got-stevie-nicksJuan :
@unknownuser said:JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE
No need of Court
No need of anything____________________________-
That is very hard.I agree.
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Taking the comment at its word is no different then the other position. I looked at the images, and to me it looks like OBL.
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@frederik said:
@srx said:
How do you know OBL was guilty?
Sorry... What a lame question is that...?? Should I interpret your question as OBL would be innocent...??You may be reading a little too much in what he said. Look at it this way: we (me included) assume Bin Laden was 9/11's culprit. Given none of us are high-ranking CIA officers, our opinions may very well be just that, opinions. It's never a bad thing to question one's own assertion of things. Mental hygiene, eh?
@frederik said:
@juanv.soler said:
JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE
No need of Court
No need of anythingExactly... None of the above was needed in this case...
OBL was killed like a coward - just as he deserved...He should've been hauled into court. As civilized people, we should adhere to civilized modi operandi. For our own sakes.
That said, for all I know they wanted to bring him to court. WTF do I know? Nada. I make a mean curry, though.
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