Windows 7 and sketchup
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That's pretty good news. What about as a rendering platform - i.e. vray, brazil renderer...etc...
The reason i ask is because its the only issue that i have so far with Vista. Just curious, do you like it better as a platform than xp sp 3? -
I use V-Ray for Sketchup. And I have tested 3DSMax, Vue7, Adobe CS4, Bonzai. All works fine.
I like Vista over XP (don't understand why it's taking such a beating) but this Windows7 is by far the best Windows edition I've ever tried. I was in on the Vista beta, but I wasn't as excited as I was about Windows7.
I've used Windows since Windows 3.1 and I think windows since XP has been a good OS (started shaping up with Windows 2000).
At work we still use XP 32bit, but when Windows7 is release I hope to get them to upgrade to Windows7 64bit. The applications we use are pretty RAM heavy so we'd really benefit from 64bit systems. Especially since the applications we sue now finally are beginning to be made available in 64bit. XP's 64bit experience hasn't been so good, first with Vista it seemed to be workable. Now after using 64bit myself for the last half a year I'm very happy
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The 64 bit programs - are there performance gains over 32 bit except for the fact that it supports more than 3 gigs of ram ?
. Btw, what's bonzai? -
Don't have any hard facts on other performance gains than the RAM. The RAM itself is good enough reason for me.
Bonzai is a new app under development that derives from FormZ. It feels like Sketchup with NURBS. http://www.bonzai3d.com/bonzai3d_home.html
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Thomas, The problem with Vista for some of us was that after investing thousands on large format plotters, and printers that, finding no driver for Vista created hesitations in migrating. Windows 7's built in XP VM with support for USB may be the answer. Once I get my WinXP USB hardware connected to a Virtual network, I will be able to upgrade without problems.
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I've noticed on different forums there was a major bug with using remote libraries on a networked computer running xp or something. Have you run into any problems using networking access or mapped network hard drives ?
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I've only used Vista/Windows7 at home. Don't really have that big a network. Besides my main computer, I have my old which I use as extra render power and test platform (Ubuntu/Vista/XP) , my laptop (XP) and my Mac Mini (OSX10.4) I've not used mapped network hard drives. As for network access; I think I had to tweak some to get Ubuntu and OSX to talk to my windows network.
@honoluludesktop said:
Thomas, The problem with Vista for some of us was that after investing thousands on large format plotters, and printers that, finding no driver for Vista created hesitations in migrating. Windows 7's built in XP VM with support for USB may be the answer. Once I get my WinXP USB hardware connected to a Virtual network, I will be able to upgrade without problems.
Yes, this is usually the problem, lack of third-party drivers. Though the support is quite good now. And Windows7 accepts Vista drivers fine, so it's a better situation now then when Vista first came out.
I've yet to try the XP mode, but it sounds really nice. -
Thomas, My physical network is not very big (5 physical boxes), but my virtual network is fairly complex. I have DOS, Win 95, and Win98 application running on MS's Virtual Server. They talk to each other via the VS programmable interface. For example Project95, a application that I only use a couple times a year to create bar charts. Its just not worth upgrading just for bar-charts, so the app. runs in a Win98 VM as it will not install in a WinXP.
My thoughts on the problems with Vista, are that the hardware guys are at fault. They want to sell equipment and if they upgrade the old drivers, we won't need them. Unlike cell phones, there are only do many features that you can stuff into a plotter. MS is being smart by providing a WinXP Vm in Win7 with USB support. I will have no hesitation with upgrading to Win7 by the time SR1 comes out:-) I only hope that VS runs (fast enough) in Win7 as Hyper-V doesn't sound like a good platform for my DOS vm's; untill Intel gets a multi-core up to 6 Ghz, or a faster bus.
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I'm still hanging on to my 6 year old Logitech keyboard and mouse, even though there's no drivers from Logitech for that set in Vista or Windows7, so my extra mouse buttons doesn't work. But everything else works perfectly, and I don't like the new keyboard layout of the new boards - they changed the Insert,Delete,Home,EndPgUp,PgDn keys, so I'll be damned if I replace it before it physically fails on me. On Vista (32bit) I managed to install the old XP drivers, and it did seem to work. Though on the website they strongly recommended against it. Not sure if it is something to it, or if they say that to avoid potential support problems if they didn't or if it's simply a method to make users to buy new hardware.
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Thomas, About the hardware, that's really great. I held on to the original IBM Pc keyboard as long as I could, then when I switched to a AT keyboard, I found one with a wide platform that I could rest my hand on. It worked fantastic with function key macros. When the keyboards began to change I bought a few, along with spare digitizers, and special graphic boards for backup. After a while, I no longer used the AT keyboard, or the graphic adapters, but still use the digitizer. Its difficult to replace because I require a custom paper template that fits into a recess on the digitizer's surface.
As I said previously, with any luck, I will be able to retire before all the patches I require fail
To make all of this work, I save in a special folder, all the setup and install programs that I currently utilize, along with detailed read.me files to remind me what of I did to setup my system. That way, when I immigrate to another OS, I just copy the folder then step through reinstalling one app or utility at a time. I have original copies of DOS 6.xx, Win 3.11, Windows for workgroups, Win98, WinXP, VPC, and VS. Except for Win 3.11, I use all of them. Don't throw away OS's, and old programing tools. (I cleaned off my book shelf, and dumped some books dealing with DOS interrupts that I had not looked at for perhaps 10 years. 5 years later, with the advent of WinXP, I needed to patch an old program, and barely managed to do so without the docs) You never know when you need to work on a old program to run in a new OS. I document my source code to the point of redundancy, and still have problems with understanding what I did 10 years ago. Hardware is another story, as much as possible, adapt the programs, and your work to new hardware. It gets old, and with the exception of my serial digitizer, nothing has survived a couple of OS upgrades. Sounds like a lot of work?, not with the benefits of being able to move apps from one OS to another over 10-15 years. I bought my first DOS 2.0 pc about 1983, and never looked back.
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@honoluludesktop said:
... after investing thousands on large format plotters, and printers that, finding no driver for Vista created hesitations in migrating.
for large format printers resp. pen and raster plotters supporting hpgl or hpgl/2 you may want check WinLINE which is avail for Win 2000/XP/2003/Vista x32/x64.
hth,
Norbert -
Hi Norbert, Thanks for trying to help. I looked at the product documentation, but it still requires hardware driver compatibility with the OS to output to a specific printer. In other words, if Vista can not see my printer, then no program running in Vista will be able to see it. Hopefully Win7 with VXP, and USB support will.
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I am using Windows 7 RC 64 bit with SU7, and I haven't had one issue with Sketchup.... Interestingly, I am still battling to get AutoCAD 2007 to work right though....
I would say that Windows 7 is great, so much better then Vista. Although, I am running a pretty high end machine too...
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@honoluludesktop said:
In other words, if Vista can not see my printer, then no program running in Vista will be able to see it.
of course, after installing an appropriate printer driver as e.g. WinLINE Vista and every other supported OS will 'know' your printer, i.e. every application which can print can output to the device... besides using a plen plotter and using a raster editor.
Installing the WL trial version might help to determine if printing/ploting works with your hpgl or hgp2/hprtl compatible device.
@honoluludesktop said:
Hopefully Win7 with VXP, and USB support will.
as I understodd, the virtual XP mode is supported only if a CPU with intel VT or AMD V support is used... which is e.g. not valid for the Intel Core 2 Quad Q8x00 series.
hth,
Norbert -
Windows 7 is much better than Windows Vista. Actually win7 is the same winvista but working normally.
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Norbert, Perhaps I don't understand, but are you saying that WinLine is a Vista driver for my plotters and printers? If not, how can my hardware see Vista, and WinLine? The WinLine site doesn't make that claim, and as far as I can tell, WinLine is a program that takes a HPGL ascii file, and converts it into a data stream that a raster printer can print. I didn't see a claim that WinLine would function in place of a printer driver. We are currently using shareware to provide HPGL2Raster.
You are right, that for Win7's virtual machine features to function, the CPU and bios must be compatible. By the time Win7 is ready for release, I expect that all PC manufactures that install the OS will be able to meet these requirements.
Thanks for your suggestion, but we can't afford to purchase a Vista Computer just to see if WinLine can see the printers, and plotters:-)
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@honoluludesktop said:
...but are you saying that WinLine is a Vista driver for my plotters and printers?
yes, if your printers/plotters are compatible to the hpgl1 or hpgl2/hprtl industry standard.
see list of supported devices on WL website or check the user manuals of your devices for supported formats.
@honoluludesktop said:
...and as far as I can tell, WinLine is a program that takes a HPGL ascii file, and converts it into a data stream that a raster printer can print.
no, WL is a standard windows printer driver, not a standalone application.
@honoluludesktop said:
I didn't see a claim that WinLine would function in place of a printer driver.
no, nobody has claimed that WL can drive every device on the world... which would be ridicolous in doing so.
as far as I understood you/we are are talking from large format printers aka plotters.
@honoluludesktop said:
...I expect that all PC manufactures that install the OS will be able to meet these requirements.
this is not my concern, my remark was targeted to users of existing systems or recent buyers which might want upgrade too.
@honoluludesktop said:
Thanks for your suggestion, but we can't afford to purchase a Vista Computer just to see if WinLine can see the printers, and plotters:-)
just install the trial on your e.g. WXP or 2003 system for your evaluation purposes.
compatibility with your output devices depends on the standards mentioned above and not on the underlying os, i.e. if working under XP it's pretty the same under Vista.
btw, a printer driver generally doesn't 'see' the hardware but does only convert the print data delivered from the application via the Windows GDI to the format required (e.g. PCL, HP-GL, HP-RTL, PostScript etc.), the communication w/ the output device is done by the spooler which is part of the Windows printing sub system only.
hth,
Norbert -
Wow, a 3d party printer driver. That is definitely worth a look. We have both large format printers, and plotters. In our office, less expensive large format inkjet printers, are slowly taking the place of vector plotters. Most of our CAD drawings are HPGL to Raster between 300 to 600 dpi, that are eventually archived as pdf files. You are right, I can evaluate the driver in WinXP.
I even see a "generic raster plotter" driver. Now if I can get MS Word to print in HP-RTL, maybe I don't have to replace some of our older desktop printers:-)
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