Automotive Bill (NOTE DO NOT READ IF YOU LIKE RICHARDSHELBY)
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interesting.
Pav
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Surely the one bloke wont be able to stop the whole thing though? or am i showing a gross ignorance of the US system?
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the a**holes gonna stop it
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whoa, dude, grab one of these...
sorry, couldn't resist!
Pav
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The American Big 3 haven't had a progressive thought in decades and the only way they've held on this long is by appropriating German and Japanese technology. The main reason the Gov't is bailing them out is the 500,000 unemployed figures last month put the fear of God in everyone. Realistic numbers run as high as 150 billion to keep these dinosaurs floating. Why not just let them sink,and give it to the employees who will inturn pump it back into the economy by purchasing new cars that will be built by Japanese/American plants.
These guys are so out of touch the first time they showed up in Washington was on their private jets and when the 'methane hit the fan' they arrived in hybrids the next time. Off with their heads.DE
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So let them fall. the workers will go work for the companies who didn't squander their income. Those companies will need to exapnd rapidly to keep up with their new demand load from people who cant buy a GM or whatever.
Plus, companies like Tesla might stand a better chance at really becoming something fast if people are going to looking for a new brand of car to buy into.
Chris
PS - I don't like the filibuster tactic though, assuming that is what he's planning on doing. I really haven't been following this at all.
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I agree, let them fail. they have been bleeding for so long and still they do not have a real plan on how to stop the bleeding, a 15 billion dollar tax payers band-aid on a jugular wound will not work.
And American airlines is next, unless they can adopt a business plan like Southwest airlines.It's time to stop all this bailout crap!
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@solo said:
I agree, let them fail. they have been bleeding for so long and still they do not have a real plan on how to stop the bleeding, a 15 billion dollar tax payers band-aid on a jugular wound will not work.
And American airlines is next, unless they can adopt a business plan like Southwest airlines.It's time to stop all this bailout crap!
It doesn't make sense to adopt a plan like southwest - reasonble prices, lots of destinations, lots of flight times, no extra fees. Heck, their even friendly over there at Southwest. If they adopted those kind of standards, people might actually want to fly with them, and then they wouldn't be eligible for a big government bailout.
Chris
BTW, I've applied for a 1.3 billion dollar loan myself to make up for some time I've spent here on the forums instead of making money.
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Sounds like Shelby is just a free marketeer. Yes, he can stop a bill from being passed, because the bill has to be passed by both the House and the Senate. All spending bills must originate in the House. The Dems control the House and the House has different rules than the Senate. Unless the Senate Dems have at least 60 votes, then they can't stop a filibuster. They don't have 60 votes. That's what Shelby and a few other senators plan to use to stop the bill.
IMO, the big 3 need to be restructured, not bailed out. It won't destroy the US economy if they restructure. They union wants this bill so they can continue their strong arm tactics to maintain the current status quo (low productivity, high pay).
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I've heard many say that a bailout may not save them in the long term. Iacoca did it for GM in the 80's but what are the chances of that happening again, to all 3 competing companies at the same time?
I say let them go down as they may and be replaced by forward thinking, responsible companies that make a product that people want.
My favorite quote in discussions like these...
"Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it."
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The Bailout. . .(insert Laugh track here) will give the government at least a 20% ownership stake in the big 3. . .and gives Congress the right to appoint a CAR CZAR to administer the expenditures. Whoa! There's an idea. Let government run business. Not only that, He/She would be a political appointment with all the political crap that goes with it. That'll work. Bankruptcy would NOT put 1000's people out of work. IT only turns the administration unto court appointed overseers to give the companies time to re-work their business models and renegotiate their contracts with Labor. Union jobs pay about 45% more on average than the non union. Toyota pays about $45/hr avg while the Big Three are up around $75. plus the unions get job-banking which means if a company relocates, displaced workers get to keep drawing 95% of their salaries eventhough they don't work! How can any company keep working like that? Plus, the Car Czar treats the big 3 like they are all one company and they are all in the same boat. bankruptcy gives them the opportunities to re-work their separate deals. These problems coupled with the fact that they build cars no one wants to buy and you aint got a chance. $1500 at least of each GM car goes to pay for union benefits. there's no value to the consumer. Brand confidence has gone down. No matter what they come up with it will be very hard to get Consumers back on track when they can get a reliable Toyota or Honda.
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Hi All,
I see a lot about this move on the news over here. I think this Worldwide credit crunch might be a good thing in the long term if it means getting rid of inefficient companies and processes. So what if the US is filled with well designed and eco friendly European and Japanese cars. These companies will be manufacturing in the US and employing US workers that will be producing vehicles that will be efficient not like the majority of rubbish that is being made in Detroit presently with the exception of a few low volume models.
Quite frankly I was shocked to still see those gas guzzlers on the streets on my visit to Mountain View.
Oppps, maybe this is a bit hard !!!
Mike
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@chris fullmer said:
So let them fall. the workers will go work for the companies who didn't squander their income. Those companies will need to exapnd rapidly to keep up with their new demand load from people who cant buy a GM or whatever.
well
what about the others?????? its not just them, its the other companys below them!! -
Well paintshops still paint non us made cars. Body shops still repair dents from accidents Mechanics still fix non US made cars. Well, not as often, but that's actually a good thing for the consumer (thats you and me!) whose "foreign" car doesn't break down as often.
Its important to remember that "foreign" isn't really so foreign. I don't have a statistic, so I'll make one up. 95% of "foreign" cars are assembled in the US. With many of the parts being made overseas. This is identical to the Big 3. They assemble them here, but much is from overseas. OK, so that's all made up, but I think its approximately accurate. Foreign cars still mean jobs in the US.
Don't get me wrong, Id rather them not fail. I just wish they fixed their own mess before they get to this point. And I think they should restructure.
But again, I don't know anything and fortunately I'm not the one making any decisions about it.
Chris
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accually i mean like places that only tune GMs chryslers fords ETC
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What you have to realize is that just because the companies file Chap 7, that doesn't mean thousands of workers are out the next morning. What it means is a court appointed administrator(s) takes over running the company to work out their refinancing. If a company goes Chap 11, that's when the assets go on the Auction block. I don't think they are talking about that at all.
All the Republicans want to do is 1) not give the US Gov't control of the companies. 20% is pretty much voting control and theyll only screw it up and 2) quit using oceans of tax payer money to bail out poorly managed companies.and another thing. . .All the talk about corporate jets, whether or not they going to have electric cars on the road next year, or high CEO salaries is nonsense. If you could find a guy who could really turn all of this around, and make these companies viable again, (Like Iaccoca did for CHRYSLER in 1980 [not GM -- and he really didn't do that great a job]) but someone like that. . .
But he wanted $100 Million a year to do it. .. wouldn't it be worth it?D
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it didnt pass
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