In memoriam

[Stinkie]

@srx said:

It was because you called for "twisting some arms" repeating your President's words. It sound scary to me, so I had to react!

a) I used that expression metaphorically.

b) I have a president?

c) Bye-bye.

[andybot]

@stinkie said:

b) I have a president?

Guess you were sounding too American

Easy to blame everything on "the West"

[Phillip H]

Where is the :forehead slap: emoji? I looked everywhere!

I know I'm small potatoes around here. Most of you are well accomplished and well known to each other. But having read this thread, I wanted to share my tuppence with you.

The thread is named "in memoriam", so let me start by expressing my heartfelt condolences for all those that have suffered because of this tragedy; the dead, the wounded, the traumatized and their surviving family and friends - no matter their beliefs. The survivors and their family and friends will be dealing with the aftermath of this senseless act long after the sensational and salacious headlines, the timely sound-bites and well-rehearsed sympathies have faded from the newspapers, the political blogs, the tactical blather of news-show talking heads and the incessant crawls that parade across the bottom of our TV screens.

Concerning all the blame-placing and so-called facts I have read, I only have this to say: Follow the money and use a little common sense. Governments and Religions can only go as far as their budget allows. Wars cost money, a lot of money; religious wars, ideological wars, drug wars, all wars. Believe it or not, most countries cannot finance a prolonged conflict of any nature without outside help. The median wealth of the average citizen does not present a substantial enough tax base for that purpose. Corporations and wealthy individuals own most of the natural resources of any real value on this big blue marble and everything political is quid pro quo.

On the subject of religion, there are only two perspectives that matter; 1) Religious organizations use their doctrines dogmatically to motivate their blind followers to judge everyone else and 2) true believers use those same doctrines to judge themselves - instead of anyone else. Wanna guess which is more dangerous?

The United States of America, the 'Land of the Free', the purveyor of the democratic ideal, isn't even a 'democratic republic' anymore according to the multi-variable statistical analysis of public policy decisions summarized in a recent study Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens, by Princeton University Prof Martin Gilens and Northwestern University Prof Benjamin I Page. It is a corporate oligarchy and btw, it incarcerates more of it's citizens per capita, than the most despotic and repressive governments of any ideological bent - in the whole world.

For those that blame 'The West': You may have to wait until it gets out of it's own privatized and corporate owned prison system. Gilens and Paige report that the median voter in the US, even when banded together in large special interest groups, has a ZERO probability of getting ANY public policy measure passed into law, unless it is also supported by the wealthy elite.

We think we know who the ultra-wealthy are. After all, the 'independent' media keeps us abreast of such things, right? But all major media outlets are now completely owned by corporate interests. So they aren't so 'independent' anymore.

If you had that kind of wealth and power, would you want to forego your privacy and anonymity or would you rather pull strings from behind the scenes? Personally, I don't think we have a clue as to who the real movers and shakers are or their motives. Nor do I think that they would subscribe to any nationalistic, religious or idealistic cause that did not directly relate to their love of power and sense of entitlement. Politics and conspiracy theories have a lot in common: A little truth, a lot of fabrication and plenty of drama to spare. Therein lies the real opiate of the masses. The Truth, much like 'Elvis', has left the building.

I would much rather be considered a good neighbor than be known as a political leader, no matter the retirement plan or health benefits. I would rather be considered a kind and moderate person than an ideological zealot. I would much rather be thought of as a caring believer rather than a religious paragon. Who is it that shows up with sustenance and encouragement, long after the cameras, the leaders, the zealots and the purveyors of religious 'truth' have moved on? The good and caring neighbor; the real friend. How is that for truth?

In memoriam? This seems well considered...

A small excerpt from Lord Alfred Tennyson's "In Memoriam"

@unknownuser said:

I held it truth, with him who sings
To one clear harp in divers tones,
That men may rise on stepping-stones
Of their dead selves to higher things.

But who shall so forecast the years
And find in loss a gain to match?
Or reach a hand thro' time to catch
The far-off interest of tears?

[srx]

@phillip h said:

For those that blame 'The West': You may have to wait until it gets out of it's own privatized and corporate owned prison system. Gilens and Paige report that the median voter in the US, even when banded together in large special interest groups, has a ZERO probability of getting ANY public policy measure passed into law, unless it is also supported by the wealthy elite.

I agree most of your words. But I do not agree that people in imperial countries are helpless and that is why I am trying to provoke them. I haven't seen people from the west raising voices against the bombing of my country in the middle of the Europe in 1999, putting it back in XIX century which was the breakage of international law. On the contrary. They are helping corporations do the work by sleeping, thinking with TV brain. This "prison" is made very comfortable so no one would need to question where it all came from? Emigrants from colonies are running toward this centers of power. They want it too. Why not? They also have their I-phones. They are not escaping from the war only (if they were, they would chose the closest destination). They want to live in luxurious "prisons" and watch the war on TV. When all people want to live in the center the civil wars are unavoidable.

I suggest listen to this guy. He explained the situation very well:
https://youtu.be/1D-9_LFPN7g

[Stinkie]

@srx said:

I haven't seen people from the west raising voices against the bombing of my country in the middle of the Europe in 1999 (...)

You should've paid better attention then.

I was 22 in '99, and I clearly remember lots of people and organisations -Amnesty for one- raising questions and protesting against the bombings.

@srx said:

On the contrary.

Therefore everyone in the West is a mere puppet of shadowy organisations perpetrating their apocalyptic agendas? And thus deserve your disdain? Sheesh. You are NOT the measure of things.

Now STOP your insulting allegations.

@andybot said:

Guess you were sounding too American

Hmm ... Can't have that, now can we? National healthcare -yay! Strict gun laws -hooray! Down with the Tea Party!

[srx]

@phillip h said:

That is sooo cute. You still think governments run countries and citizens have a voice. That is precious. I'll bet you think politics are real too. I could just hug you

If you read my posts, you would see I was also saying that politicians are just actors. I know that in the west, governments are no longer in charge, because corporations became more powerful than countries, and the beast hunger for profit is out of control. The reason why I reacted here was because I was provoked by usage of Obama's term - that now it is needed to "twist some arms" here on the forum. It was scary for me because that's the way to use - manipulate public and bomb someone (once again). So, I was talking to that school of opinion, asking at least not to applaud to killing innocent people in the name of "democracy". I apologies to the rest of you who doesn't think so. That is the way people are participating in the scenario.

In the end I can not agree that you can't do anything about it, simply because they need public to do it. Media war is the war for potatoes, and it is quiet active.

What is wrong with the term Imperialism (a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means)? Look at the bare facts (not in "") and see how many USA, French, Germany, England soldiers fight across the world? And what a coincident - these territories are all rich in oil, or similar resources!

Many things said in this video are so obvious that no sarcasm could beat it. I doubt you even watched it. I bet you would agree with at least half of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D-9_LFPN7g%26amp;feature=youtu.be

[Phillip H]

srx,

Please, this thread is about remembering the victims. Go argue politics in a political forum. Thank you.

[Phillip H]

I am so impressed by how quickly some people want to turn a CONDOLENCE thread into their own political bully-pulpit. But I suppose we need to be educated. Let me see. How to best respond...

That is sooo cute. You stillthink governments run countries and citizens have a voice. That is precious. I'll bet you think politics are real too. I could just hug you.

Now, back to the thread:Regardless of why this horrible act was committed, it was both tragic and wrong. Paris and all the world, I am so sorry for your loss.

[gilles]

@phillip h said:

srx,

Please, this thread is about remembering the victims. Go argue politics in a political forum. Thank you.

Please do not feed the trolls.

[Stinkie]

My apologies for co-derailing this thread.