Sign for Peace in Palestine UPDATE!
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@rv1974 said:
srx, why 'everlasting problem'? I thought NATO sorted things out 15 years ago, no?
And how exactly the Snowden's revelations on Israel are connected to Great Serbia\Yugoslavia?
This topic and Snowden text is about Israel but, yes of course - NATO sorted things also in Iraq, Serbia, Libya...We all know how. Just the way they wanted to. Making chaos from normal life. You can not hide these things... except from those who want NOT to see them.
They also made a new "state" Kosovo from the part of Serbia (like they made Israel), making another everlasting problem just to place the largest NATO base in Europe there, and also a base for illegal trafficking of every kind, from narcotics to human organs. In Europe! -
@solo said:
Wow, seriously?
[attachment=0:22979trs]<!-- ia0 -->bombgaza-copy.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:22979trs]
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Google Play offers ‘Bomb Gaza’ game that lets you kill Muslim women and children
It seems the game is being downloaded and is big with Israeli kids and some adults.
What about 'Do No Evil'? ............ Shame on Googlefor facilitating this download
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@srx said:
@rv1974 said:
srx, why 'everlasting problem'? I thought NATO sorted things out 15 years ago, no?
And how exactly the Snowden's revelations on Israel are connected to Great Serbia\Yugoslavia?This topic and Snowden text is about Israel but, yes of course - NATO sorted things also in Iraq, Serbia, Libya...We all know how. Just the way they wanted to. Making chaos from normal life. You can not hide these things... except from those who want NOT to see them.
They also made a new "state" Kosovo from the part of Serbia (like they made Israel), making another everlasting problem just to place the largest NATO base in Europe there, and also a base for illegal trafficking of every kind, from narcotics to human organs. In Europe!'....... largest NATO base in Europe there'. Yep, thats about the size of it and the reason. Is Ukraine the next spot for such bases?
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@mike lucey said:
@solo said:
Wow, seriously?
[attachment=0:1yqohde6]<!-- ia0 -->bombgaza-copy.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:1yqohde6]
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Google Play offers ‘Bomb Gaza’ game that lets you kill Muslim women and children
It seems the game is being downloaded and is big with Israeli kids and some adults.
What about 'Do No Evil'? ............ Shame on Googlefor facilitating this download
REMOVED!
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Yes, I see that it has been removed by Google along with other similar 'games'. The 'games' really should not have been allowed on the site in the first place. Hopefully Google will tighten there admission procedures. Jeeeeees, even SketchUcation's dedicated Mods catch inappropriate posts within minutes!
I hear on the TV that talks are about to start in Egypt between the Palestinians and Israelis but no mention of Hamas! If Hamas is left out of the talks, I think it will be a waste of time.
I really think 'social media' has played a huge part in pushing for a resolution. However I also feel that pressure should not be eased up until an agreement is reached that ALL sides are willing to implement and stick with.
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Whatever they do it HAS to contain at least one open border WITH humanitarian aid AND some international help to rebuild. Hamas will always be a problem though and it will only be a matter of time before they continue to attack the jewish state. Really bloody wasteful of so much potential within the civilian population of gaza et al.
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@mike amos said:
Hamas will always be a problem though and it will only be a matter of time before they continue to attack the jewish state.
That's a possibility, yes. However, my guess is Gazan support for Hamas would dwindle (that's a word, right?) if Israel would support Gaza rather than attack it.
@mike amos said:
Really bloody wasteful of so much potential within the civilian population of gaza et al.
Indeed.
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@unknownuser said:
@mike amos said:
Hamas will always be a problem though and it will only be a matter of time before they continue to attack the jewish state.
That's a possibility, yes. However, my guess is Gazan support for Hamas would dwindle (that's a word, right?) if Israel would support Gaza rather than attack it.
Interesting discussion. I normally refrain form commentary in these types of discussions but I'll voice my opinion here with an interest in this matter. I am half Arabic/Danish, by the way.
Hamas has a vile charter , though it was written some 25 years ago and some encouraging changes can be noted from some elements of it membership t go along with the PA's agreements with Israel.
The Likud charter is a complete and outright rejection (for eternity) for a Palestinian state and is a more recent document(1999) Look it up! It is not too pretty either.
The Media in the US is incredibly slanted. I'd guess, much like the media narrative during the (soulless) native american extermination, we will have to wait a long time for a non partial and more accurate portrayal of the problems.
There is much much better journalism in Israel than there is in the US when it comes to this subject matter as far as what is the end game.
I just hope that all one day can live in peace side by side and this endless war and blood letting finally- one day- comes to an end.
The evangelical republicans must be seeing (non existent) signs of the(non existing)rapture that is soon to come.
Netanyahu is the worst thing that ever happened to the quest for peace in the region.
Rashad
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Thanks Rashad for your perspective.
It however looks like 'back to business' for both sides. The Israelis intended acquisition of the Gaza Strip as per the long term plan and Hamas' futile resistance / retaliation via old tech rocket launches which is only garnering some international support BUT not the support of the country that could stop this mess in an instant ...... the USA.
It looks to me that this conflict is going to widen in the area and we can see this happening with the rise of ISIS. It is NOT possible or advisable to FORCE different ethnic groups into a single entity as was the case in many areas in the middle east and a lot of other areas in the world.
Is consensus coming around to a NWO? Its looks so as being a reasonable way to 'do business' with each other BUT who or what will control the NWO ...... I have a gut wrenching feeling that its going to be the elites that control the money supply and not people elected politicians.
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@srx said:
Iraq, Serbia, Libya...
and now Ukraine...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlGLqiDogA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b67OGUsQC44 -
And then you will always find an asshole that just wants to see the world burn.
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@numerobis said:
@srx said:
Iraq, Serbia, Libya...
and now Ukraine...
if you taking this KGB-ist crap seriously you'd probably enjoy this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N27YksJDJI -
@rv1974 said:
if you taking this KGB-ist crap seriously you'd probably enjoy this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N27YksJDJIWhy? Sorry, I only watched the beginning of your video... but if it is some Korean propaganda video, i think it is intending the same brain washing we are getting from our western media - just on a much simpler level. ...it's on TV - it must be real!
And which KGB crap? Regarding all these strange incidents and coincidences that doesn't add up?
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Well the ceasefire looks that it will go on for another 24 hours. Hopefully the talks will bare some fruit, I'll remain optimistic and hopeful.
A good assessment of the situation here,
Israel-Gaza conflict: Ceasefire extended 24 hours
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-conflict-ceasefire-extended-24-hours-1.2739336
The more I see religious fanatics of all shades the more disgusted I become with organised religion in general. I hope these fanatics will realise sooner rather than later that they are being used by the power brokers that have only one 'religion', control through money. -
Unfortunately it looks like the peace talks did not deliver any glimmer of hope. Its back to business for Hamas and Israel and rockets and bombs already flying and families being murdered.
Desmond Tutu's article in Haaretz, Israel's oldest daily newspaper, is well worth reading.
My plea to the people of Israel: Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.610687It says,
Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, in an exclusive article for Haaretz, calls for a global boycott of Israel and urges Israelis and Palestinians to look beyond their leaders for a sustainable solution to the crisis in the Holy Land.
Many Israelis and Jews around the world have much the same feelings as Desmond Tutu but it looks that the hardliners are intent on genocide and land acquisition.
Hopefully the social media will stay on this and keep pushing until Israel's leaders pick up on the simple message of 'Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine'.
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Thats how its done. Non violent but stern protest by ordinary folks. Its happening in many parts of the world and it will work in time. It was a major contributing factor to the lifting of apartheid in SA.
I also see a new anti-central bank (Fed et al ) movement developing in Germany. Mostly young people that have gone though the trouble of learning about and understanding how the crooked financial system works. I can see it spreading quickly.
A major worry of mine is that the power brokers will try to control the Net but again that's easier said than done .... hopefully.
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Genocide mumbo jumbo!
Look up what the word means before you use it so freely. If Israel were into genocide The Palestinians would be long gone, a long long time ago.The article below, might help you understand at least one little part of the story, or maybe you'll get an idea of why you think Israel is so evil, when it really isn't so bad.
I live here, knowing it is one of the most wonderful free and democratic countries in the world. I see it. I feel it. I live it. I live among Arab Israelis. I pay my rent to an Arab family. I have good Arab friends. The story in this country is so much more complicated than what you guys can imagine. So spare the blind hatred without knowing the full story. Come to this country... visit it. See it with your own eyes, take a tour... Maybe even live here for a while! maybe... you'll understand a little about the situation more than what the international media agencies spoon feed you their one sided stories with a clear and boring narrative, and maybe you'll understand that there is no simple solution to the problems here. I wish it were simple... If it were, it would have been done a long time ago.
There may be some similarities between the problems here and what was between northern Ireland and England, but yet it is soooo different. The Islamic hatred is a whole other cup O'tea. Just look at what's happening in Syria and Iraq now, beheadings, killings in the name of some imaginary friend.
Imagine people with that kind of mentality and brutality, knocking on your door with mortar shells every day of the week for years... And nothing being done about it.
If it would have happened to you, be it in England or Ireland or where ever in Europe, the imaginary genocide you so freely speak of, would have been long been done, but not by Jews or Israelis... but rather by...It hurts to see the blind sightedness of highly intelligent people here.
Read these two articles... maybe they will shed some light on something.-
An Insider’s Guide to the Most Important Story on Earth
A former AP correspondent explains how and why reporters get Israel so wrong, and why it matters.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/183033/israel-insider-guide?all=1 -
Why Don’t I Criticize Israel?
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel?utm_source=Newsletter+subscribers%26amp;utm_campaign=7e5060b69b-JTA_Daily_Briefing_7_29_2014%26amp;utm_medium=email%26amp;utm_term=0_2dce5bc6f8-7e5060b69b-26838273
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Will most likely kick myself later, as I really should know better, but here goes anyway,
First, I am a huge Sam Harris fan – have every one of his books- even though I do often find his hawkish almost watered down Pam Geller ”ish” islamophobia a tad tedious -not to mention his constant support of all things Dershowitz somewhat mystifying, yet understandable as Sam was at Harvard at the same time.
Secondly , I agree that the term genocide is overused in these discussions, is misused and of inappropriate usage.
So, lets break down and scrutinize just a few of the litany of Sam's comments.
Quote SH “What would the Jews do to the Palestinians if they could do anything they wanted?”.........
The implication being that Israel is all powerful and could easily smite the Gazans if it so wished yet it takes the “utmost care” to do as little harm as possible.
We don't condone the actions of South Africa during the apartheid era or of British rule during its time In India . They too did not wipe out the people they were oppressing- yet we do not condone and should not condone abhorrent acts of the oppressors. Here Israel is no different IMO.
Quote SH “The truth is that everything you need to know about the moral imbalance between Israel and her enemies can be understood on the topic of human shields. Who uses human shields? …....
The IDF has also shamefully used Gazan's as human shields and to the best of my knowledge not one IDF soldier has been imprisoned for these illegal acts (war crimes) Sam makes no mention of this even though I”m sure it is well known to him. To expect an improvised army such as Hamas has to stand out from the civilian crowd is simply not possible in such a squalidly tight space. No mater the “Higher scale of Israel's Moral authority” as Sam cites it, This in no way should condone the continued occupation & disproportionately heavy handed shelling,(Dahiya doctrine) that has become the norm.
In the end only when Israel can offer something that is quantifiably a better than "a shitty deal" will there be peace in the region. I have no doubt that Gazans want to live in peace juts as much as their Israeli cousins.
Perhaps the maxim that “if one stops treating people as animals they will stop behaving as animals” can one day come true. I certainly hope so, for everyone’s sake.
Sam, also equates Hamas to ISIS or Al-Qaeda. This is simply untrue. They re all abhorrent, but hardly on the same scale of evil. What did Israel get from its dealings with the PA? Nothing but land grabs and a worse enermy to deal with . Hopefully Israel will not have to face something worse than Hamas, but if history has any lesson, its very likely.
I agree with you Israel has a head and shoulder standing above its neighbours when it comes to “Democracy”. Like every democratic country it too faces democratic problems. Just witness the development of Sahonium Detention facility a few kilometers from Um Al Hitan in the Negev.
These developments by Isreali extremists (Shas party) surly do not make for what a democracy should be and do not bode well for the future.
Lastly the idea that “the international media agencies spoon feed you their one sided stories with a clear and boring narrative” is also well narrated in the Israeli press by such notable and worthy journalists like Amira Hass & Gideon Levy not to mention The human rights groups in Israel like Bet' Selem and others, who daily work at providing a less jaundiced look at what is really going on in the area.
Hope this finds you in good spirits, I wish you and all your loved ones all the best for the future as well as all your Not -so- distant- cousins (Gazans)
Shalom,
Rashad
A nuanced conversation between Sam Harris and andrew sullivan well worthy of anyone’s time.
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/08/14/gazing-at-gaza-a-conversation-with-sam-harris/
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@halroach said:
Genocide mumbo jumbo!
Moshe Feiglin the Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset looks to be calling for concentration camps in Gaza in his action plan to defeat Hamas.
Here is his plan,*a) The IDF [Israeli army] shall designate certain open areas on the Sinai border, adjacent to the sea, in which the civilian population will be concentrated, far from the built-up areas that are used for launches and tunneling. In these areas, tent encampments will be established, until relevant emigration destinations are determined. The supply of electricity and water to the formerly populated areas will be disconnected.
b) The formerly populated areas will be shelled with maximum fire power. The entire civilian and military infrastructure of Hamas, its means of communication and of logistics, will be destroyed entirely, down to their foundations.
c) The IDF will divide the Gaza Strip laterally and crosswise, significantly expand the corridors, occupy commanding positions, and exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain.*
Moshe's plan sure sound genocidal to me! What Mr Feiglin does not realise is that Hamas would probably not exist at it current level without considerable support from Gazan residents. The rise of Hamas, like the rise of the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland was a symptom of evils being carried out. No evils, no revengers!
Desmond Tutu's message, 'Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine' is the only way for lasting peace in the area. A State of Palestine is the only answer. It will take a strong and courageous Israeli leader to go down this road and I don't thing the current leadership are of this caliber. I wish I was wrong.
If the Palestinians were to get their own state of a reasonable size or even some initial power-sharing arrangement that would lead to full statehood, I think support for Hamas would decline or better still they would see sense and go the political route.
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